freenode/#devuan/ Saturday, 2019-12-21

rrqdebdog: I believe the version diffs btw amd66 and i386 are fewer now, and esp util-linux is sync'ed (which was the problem a while ago)00:04
rrqamd64 even00:05
debdoggood to know. got to give it another trial the upcoming days00:09
vsnuSup everyone.  Trying to figure out if I'm calling a C function incorrectly, or if there's a bug.  I'm trying to use sleep(seconds) in an infinite 'while' loop.  This kind of thing can be done pretty easily in a shell loop.  But, the C program will lock up, process everything, then output everything all at once.  Is this normal behavior?02:05
stovepipefsmithred: his is in legacy mode but UEFI capable, my T510's are not UEFI capable02:41
stovepipehe says he had to put it in legacy mode to boot the USB... i doubt this is true but i havent walked through any of that with him02:41
stovepipeabout to test on this machine, T520 is UEFI capable02:42
stovepipeboth T510's had the same result02:42
fsmithredstovepipe, my T420 is set to legacy and won't boot from usb. I have to chainload from cdrom to grub on hard disk and then to the usb. Probably needs updated bios.03:12
fsmithredand the isos should all boot on uefi with the exception of the minimal-live03:12
stovepipejust tested the T520, with and without UEFI and in text mode03:14
stovepipefor sanity03:14
stovepipesame result, different files03:14
stovepipethis time it wanted 2, 6000g2a-6 and 6000g2a-503:14
stovepipenext trying a different mirror i guess03:15
stovepipefsmithred: interesting my T520 boots usb in legacy only mode03:16
stovepipei thought they were almost identical03:16
stovepipeoh updated bios, yeah maybe03:16
stovepipemine are all up to the latest available03:16
stovepipethe other dude never did03:17
stovepipealso the other dude tried debian like 6 months ago and had the same result03:17
tocsaI'm on ceres/beowulf. Most of my xfce4 packages are 4.14 now since summer, but the main xfce4 package is still only 4.12, because one package holds it back: the xcfe4-session is only 4.1203:17
stovepipeand there is also the fact that the devuan 2.0 images all work fine03:18
tocsaAnyone else is in the same situation as me?03:18
stovepipealso i installed antix recently on one of the T510's and that worked also03:19
furrywolfxfce4-session is probably something where each release needs to be modified to work without systemd03:19
furrywolfand no one has fixed the newer version yet03:19
tocsa@furrywolf interesting. Makes sense. I see that the xfce 4.14 would be available though. I wish I had time to help with this. Can Gentoo help us out just like with elogind?03:22
furrywolfI'm not sure.  I'm mostly a tester/complainer, not a dev.03:22
golinuxtocsa: That will be fixed after the beowulf release when we set up Chimaera (bullseye)03:24
tocsaWhat's your opinion about https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002 ? Can we hope it'll yield some result which will help transitioning to a less systemd dominated world?03:25
tocsa@golinux Thx for the info. The system is mostly working OK (with workarounds), so I'll be patient. There was an occasion when I wanted to mirror my displays instead of extending it, and the selection was greyed out. I believe it'll be fixed in 4.14.03:26
furrywolfjust skimming the voting, it looks like the result will be quite the opposite, with "focus on systemd" winning.03:27
golinuxThat shouldn't surprise you.03:28
agrisI just installed OpenRC 40 in devuan Ascii03:34
agrisIt's very broken03:34
agrisit's not actually running any of the daemon scripts03:34
furrywolfsadly, there's no option there for "kill systemd with fire".03:38
agrisyou talking about the debian gr?03:38
furrywolfyep03:39
fsmithredtocsa, xfce display settings in beowulf are already better than before. I no longer need to install lxrandr. I can't test with two monitors right now.03:39
agrisfurrywolf, I asked about that03:39
agristhey told me I was a troll and said "you only don't like systemd for religious reasons" despite never saying such03:40
agrisvery very immature03:41
agrisvery unprofessional03:41
agrisand close minded03:41
tocsaThat's so sad03:41
furrywolfI'm pretty sure neither of us is allowed to vote in it.03:41
golinuxPlease tqake it to #debianfork03:42
tocsaLooked like to me it's open for Debian developers03:42
golinuxThis is a Devuan support channel03:42
agriswell the results are going to get skewed because they alienated half their developers and those developers are now Devuan developers if I understand correctly and what people are saying the the archived forums is true03:42
furrywolfif debian decides to expunge all support for non-systemd inits, that rather makes devuan's development harder.03:42
* fsmithred wishes we had that many devs03:43
agrisWhat is there left for Beowulf to release?03:43
fsmithrednot sure. A few packages. Installer isos. Live isos.03:43
agrisfsmithred, there's no other option if you need something as stable and polished as Devuan without systemd03:43
agristhe only other thing, Hyperbola is based on Arch03:44
agrisfsmithred, do you know where I could find out?03:44
rdavcan anybody share where are the Debian GR vote results posted?03:44
agrisbecause I really want to use openrc 4003:44
stovepipefsmithred: the sums are different03:44
fsmithredwhich checksums?03:44
stovepipe321292be7928f7f09918affe1529283d571930ec4a93a2cce8e0ce0d494058e8  devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso03:44
stovepipeon taht leaseweb mirror03:44
stovepipe2095a33e874781d3995bc477ca83dfb6250552fa9ff2db4bc71423a37f42fb99  devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso03:45
furrywolfrdav:  I don't think results will be posted until voting closes.03:45
agrisWhat is this a matter of?03:45
rdavfurrywolf: thanks03:46
stovepipetesting the other image now03:46
furrywolfI suspect, however, having more devs second the only-systemd option than any of the others is an indicator of the likely result.03:46
agrisIf it's really just a matter of someone creating scripts, as soon as someone can tell me WHERE to put openrc-run scripts I can start submitting03:46
fsmithred321292be7928f7f09918affe1529283d571930ec4a93a2cce8e0ce0d494058e8 is what the SHA256SUMS file says. I'll check it.03:47
agrisI have no idea where any of this is being coordinated03:47
agrisbesides this chatroom03:47
stovepipefsmithred: yeah from the leaseweb one03:47
agrisand nobody seems to know what's the status on beowulf either03:47
stovepipethe second one i posted is from another mirror03:47
stovepipethere is no reason for them to be different03:47
fsmithredI'm looking at files.devuan.org03:47
fsmithredbad download by leaseweb?03:48
stovepipei mean, arent they all distributed from the same source and should be identical03:48
fsmithredthe file says something different there?03:48
stovepipethe sumfile has the bad sum in it also03:48
stovepipeyes03:48
fsmithredfuck03:48
stovepipemalicious mirror?03:48
fsmithredlink please03:48
stovepipehttps://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/03:48
stovepipeyup, the image from another mirror works03:49
stovepipefuck me03:49
stovepipei knew i should have checked that last night heh03:49
fsmithred2095a33e874781d3995bc477ca83dfb6250552fa9ff2db4bc71423a37f42fb99  devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso03:50
fsmithredthat's the one I used03:50
stovepipeyeah that one works for me now03:50
stovepipetheres no reason for the SHA256SUMS files to ever be different03:51
stovepipeyet they are, and match the files03:51
stovepipethat smells like a rat03:51
tocsa@fsmithred yea, mostly I don't have any problem either03:51
fsmithredhang on stovepipe. I might know what happened, but I need to check a couple things.03:52
stovepipedid you push an update or something that didnt get picked up03:53
agrisfsmithred, what's going on? a malicious ISO?03:53
stovepipeagris: iso sums and SHA256SUMS from leaseweb dont match other mirrors03:58
stovepipefor 2.103:58
stovepipethe 2.0 stuff checks out03:58
agrisstovepipe, have you determined the intent? Is it malicious or disk corruption03:58
stovepipejust realized it moments ago03:58
stovepipeafter trying to troubleshoot a problem with the iso since last night03:59
stovepipenot loading wireless firmware03:59
stovepipeagris: there is no reason for the SHA256SUMS ever to have different sums in it04:00
stovepipeunless the release was pushed twice and one didnt get it or something04:00
fsmithredI don't think it's malicious04:01
fsmithredstill checking some stuff04:01
fsmithred029a81a06afe8823b6c556e28fa16f9390d11f985b83f499949e96bd993b66b6  devuan_ascii_2.1_i386_netinst.iso04:01
fsmithredthat's what's on files.devuan.org - I just logged into that server and checked.04:02
fsmithredNov 19 date on that file04:02
agrisI don't see any difference on leaseweb04:02
furrywolfbelltower.us is using an expired cert, need to prod the admin or remove it from the list04:02
fsmithredMine is from Oct 21 and might be a pre-release build04:02
fsmithredstovepipe, I believe you are correct about twice04:03
fsmithredpretty sure that's what happened04:03
fsmithredcheck the sig on the SHA256SUMS file04:04
stovepipeoh yeah heh its the older one that works04:04
furrywolfthe iso on sledjhamr is the same as the one on leaseweb04:04
stovepipebut is that the actual date04:04
stovepipeso the leaseweb one is the latest official, but is also the broken one?04:05
fsmithredthe one on files.devuan.org would be the latest04:05
fsmithredthat's where we upload them04:05
onefangsledjhamr is rsyncinc from files.devuan.org::devuan.04:05
stovepipeso then the new one is actually the broken one04:06
stovepipegood tiems!04:07
furrywolffiles. is very slow.  overloaded?04:07
* furrywolf can't sha256sum it until it actually downloads. heh.04:11
furrywolf(or, rather, until it downloads to my linode - they'd cost $2/each to download at home, tomorrow.  yay mobile data...)04:12
onefangMy mirror checking script will eventually check ISO mirrors as well as packages mirrors, so it might catch this sort of thing in the future.04:13
fsmithredboth SHA256SUM files (from f.d.o and from leaseweb) are signed with Ralph's key04:14
fsmithredso if the file you downloaded from leasweb matches the sum in the file at leaseweb, it's real.04:14
fsmithredstovepipe, which one works for you?04:14
furrywolfso far I've checked leaseweb, sledjhamr, and dotsrc, and they all were the same.  trying to check files., but it's taking a long time to download.04:15
stovepipefsmithred: the old one04:15
stovepipesame ine you were using04:15
stovepipeoct04:16
fsmithredok04:16
fsmithredthanks04:16
stovepipe2095a33e874781d3995bc477ca83dfb6250552fa9ff2db4bc71423a37f42fb9904:17
stovepipealso the dvd image was also broken btw04:17
stovepipethese are the two i tried that failed:04:17
stovepipebf6629d949f51d0d874a47e4d9107a0f437c1f915bf816cae8f0ceef0ca0a1d5  devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1.iso04:17
stovepipec16bebdeecdf452188ae4bb823cd5f1c0d2ed3a7a568332508943ce16f7e5c71  devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_netinst.iso04:17
stovepipeoop heh04:18
furrywolfok, I'm apparantly doing something wrong, or not understanding what the issue here is, as I'm getting identical isos from files. too.04:18
stovepipethese:04:18
stovepipe44717ec9100b3ab6256bbc14c01b71bd013e9f064d8b28251992722463175d3f  devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_dvd-1.iso04:18
stovepipe321292be7928f7f09918affe1529283d571930ec4a93a2cce8e0ce0d494058e8  devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso04:18
stovepipeare broken ones04:18
furrywolfhere is the result of my testing, while we're flooding things:04:18
furrywolf321292be7928f7f09918affe1529283d571930ec4a93a2cce8e0ce0d494058e8  dotsrc-devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso04:18
furrywolf321292be7928f7f09918affe1529283d571930ec4a93a2cce8e0ce0d494058e8  files-devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso04:18
furrywolf321292be7928f7f09918affe1529283d571930ec4a93a2cce8e0ce0d494058e8  leaseweb-devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso04:18
furrywolf321292be7928f7f09918affe1529283d571930ec4a93a2cce8e0ce0d494058e8  sledjhamr-devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso04:18
stovepipethat i tested personally04:18
furrywolfI got the same iso from all four sources, including files. and leaseweb.04:19
furrywolfI don't see any mirror synchronization issues.04:19
stovepipeyeah those are the newer ones that are broken04:19
furrywolfok...  so it's not a mirror issue, then?04:19
stovepipewell yeah it is04:20
stovepipesomewhere04:20
stovepipebecause they dont all have the same versions04:20
stovepipeand the oct 21 dated ones work04:20
stovepipenov dont04:20
stovepipethese work http://mirror.belltower.us/devuan/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/04:20
stovepipeby "work" i mean dont have the wireless firmware problem04:21
furrywolfok, so belltower isn't updating, and probably should be removed from the mirror list, since their ssl cert is expired too.  and we have a regression bug where the latest 2.1 release doesn't work while the previous 2.1 release does, entirely unrelated to mirrors.  lol04:22
furrywolfhrmm.  why don't install isos have a more-minor version number?  seems we should have one, to make things like this obvious.04:23
MinceRthey could have a date04:23
stovepipefsmithred: where did you get your image from originally, the one that worked? also from belltower?04:25
stovepipethat would be quite a coincidence lol04:25
fsmithredno, I either got it from fdo or from Ralph's server04:26
fsmithredbefore it was released04:26
fsmithredwho controls belltower?04:26
onefangWhich one is Ralph's server?  sledjhamr is mine.04:26
fsmithredborta04:27
fsmithrednot a mirror04:27
fsmithredso I should download the newer one and test it.04:28
fsmithredtomorrow04:28
agrisstovepipe, please re-download the ISO04:28
agris321292be7928f7f09918affe1529283d571930ec4a93a2cce8e0ce0d494058e8 is the correct hash04:29
furrywolfagris:  I think we've figured out the problem.04:29
stovepipelol i'm way past that04:29
stovepipethe proper one is broken04:29
furrywolfagris:  stovepipe used a mirror that isn't updating, and has an old iso.  by some coincidence, there's a regression in the installer since then, and the old version works while the new one, on every other mirror, does not.04:29
stovepipei had him use 2.0 and upgrade04:29
stovepipefsmithred: oh so it was just an image you already had kicking around?04:30
stovepipefunny sequence of events04:30
fsmithredyeah04:30
stovepipegood thing it wasnt an important customer lol04:31
fsmithredsame date as the belltower files04:31
stovepipehe dgaf04:31
furrywolfagris:  there's two issues.  the big one is the current version of the installer does not work on a system where an older version of the installer does work.  the other one is that one of the mirrors isn't syncing.04:31
stovepipeand the added comfort that he had th4 same problem with debian heh04:31
agrisfurrywolf, stovepipe, <rrq> for some reason I updated some 2.1 iso I believe.. I would have re-signed, but if it's wrong, it's wrong.04:31
fsmithredyeah, I don't remember the reason it was updated04:32
fsmithredI'm downloading the newer iso now to see if I can reproduce the problem04:32
stovepipefurrywolf: and no my original issue was with the current one not loading wireless firmware, i didnt notice the old working one until just a little while ago which started the mirror questions04:33
stovepipehappened to click on an old one by accident while testing another mirror for sanity04:33
stovepipesince fsmithred had a working one04:33
stovepipeit almost got away!04:33
onefanglol04:34
furrywolfwhomever maintains the mirror list shoud poke belltower's admin and determine if it'll be fixed or if it should be removed from the mirror list04:34
onefangI'm only maintaining the package mirrors at the moment.04:34
furrywolfthis has come up before, but I don't remember who figured out has the job of removing dead mirrors.  lol04:35
onefangDon't think I have the keys for the files mirror list.04:35
onefangI think the only ISO mirrors list is on the web page, but I might be wrong about that.04:36
onefangUnless there's a master list on files.devuan.org?04:37
furrywolfbrb04:41
agrisI've always just use bittorrent to download the releases04:44
stovepipei was originally dealing with a remote user04:45
stovepipei usually use wget in a term04:46
agrisspeaking of mirrors04:47
agrisit would be interesting to see an IPFS based apt04:47
fsmithredstovepipe, I'm imaging a usb now. Will test in a little while.04:48
stovepipefsmithred: another new one to push out?04:48
agrisall you would have to do is adjust ipns resource to the correct directory containing the new tree04:48
agrisbut ipfs probably needs to mature more before that04:48
fsmithredno, I'm testing the one that's on fdo now04:50
fsmithredok, I don't need to go very far. Like your customer, I got asked to plug in media with firmware.04:52
fsmithredthere's no /firmware directory with links to the packages04:53
stovepipefunny how i clicked on that one mirror for m y sanity test04:56
stovepipechaos rules04:56
stovepipeyou are going to have to respin new images though right04:56
onefangOnce my mirror checker script is checking ISO mirrors, the chaos will be automated.04:57
stovepipeheh04:57
stovepipefamous last words!04:57
stovepipeautomated chaos is best chaos04:57
furrywolflol05:00
MinceRdoes being inherent to the fabric of reality count as "automated"?05:01
stovepipeindeed05:01
onefangMy scripting skills only go so far, fabric of reality is above my pay grade.05:01
MinceR:>05:01
fsmithredwe could just tell everyone to go alt-F2 and make the symlinks manually. :P05:04
golinuxugh05:05
fsmithredyou don't use wireless05:05
furrywolfthe sad thing is, I've _always_ had to manually copy firmware.  for debian too.  putting it in the second partition never works.05:06
furrywolfnor does putting it on another usb key, in /, /firmware, or /lib/firmware...05:07
fsmithredthat's what we have tried to avoid05:07
tocsaJust by curiosity, anyone has a guess why an ufw firewall stops working with such an error? https://askubuntu.com/questions/1197640/ufw-init-errors-out-with-bad-argument-drop08:05
se7en-10:02
eyalrozHello Devuaners...19:47
eyalrozA question about sound-related console noise if I may.19:47
eyalrozI use audacious. When I pause the audio playing, I get:19:47
eyalroz snd_pcm_pause failed: Input/output error19:47
eyalrozand when unpausing, I get:19:47
eyalrozsnd_pcm_pause failed: File descriptor in bad state19:47
eyalrozwho's at fault? Is it my hardware, audacious, or something else?19:48
eyalroz(using Devuan Bewolf btw)19:49
filipdevuan_yo21:53
OldmossUpdating from Jessie to Ascii - should I do that from "root terminal" or is sudo enough? I see the example on devuan.org is using root221:57
Oldmossroot@21:57
fsmithredOldmoss, either will work22:09
fsmithredassuming you have sudo enabled for all commands22:10
fsmithred(all the right commands)22:10
Oldmossok. thanks! I'll give it a try on this laptop first, I have another one with Jessie that i have trouble with22:11
OldmossAnd two with older ascii installs that I have some trouble with too22:11
fsmithredwhat kind of trouble?22:17
OldmossThunar windows getting unresponsive22:18
Oldmossand i have two synaptic in the menu22:18
OldmossI may have messed up some rights... sometimes i cannot get stuff downloaded via browser22:20
Oldmossthats the ascii installs btw22:21
Oldmossthe other Jessie install I cannot remebmer, its been awhile22:22
OldmossI think I will just try to get the important stuff out of it and make a clean install22:22
OldmossI'm getting flashback when I tried Mint and another one in Virtualbox on my mac22:23
Oldmossafter some time I just kind of  lost control and they became unusable22:24
fsmithredyou keep thunar set to show detailed list?22:24
OldmossI'm not good at this. but I try22:24
Oldmossyes, with various columns22:25
fsmithredit's known to lock up some times in that setting22:26
fsmithredI keep it like that and it hardly ever happens, but when it does22:26
fsmithredif you can catch it quickly, use the key combinations to change the display22:26
fsmithredI think it's ctrl-1,2,3 for icons, short list, detailed list22:26
fsmithredprobably not in that order22:27
Oldmossthanks, i'll experiment with that22:27
fsmithredclean install is easier unless you have a ton of extra software that you added22:27
OldmossOh, now I have a novel to read about changes and advices from jessie to ascii22:27
golinuxI have never had Thunar lock up22:28
OldmossI have a ton of unnessesary software  I have played around with :)22:28
fsmithredum, yeah, I know that one22:29
Oldmosshm, lots of text about the xorg server after upgrading to ascii22:32
Oldmoss"xorg-server (2:1.17.3-1) unstable; urgency=medium" - should I panic or just try to be cool and nod a little22:33
Oldmossok, I just restart and see what happens22:33

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