| e54 | Hello all! It's official, I am team "Devuan" | 02:45 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | welcome aboard | 02:46 |
| * debdog starts a la-ola-wave | 02:46 | |
| brocashelm | e54: welcome to init freedom. let this channel know if you need help with anything | 02:48 |
| e54 | brocashelm: I should be ok for now. Any sway users out there? | 02:49 |
| e54 | Is there a color temp utility for wayland in the repos? | 02:51 |
| brocashelm | e54: not me, but there are some; feel free to lurk awhile until someone reads your question | 02:52 |
| e54 | brocashelm: what's your flavor of wm? On openbsd i like cwm. On linux sway. | 02:53 |
| brocashelm | maybe hydragyrum can help you with sway/wayland problems | 02:54 |
| brocashelm | e54: i actually use a desktop environment (xfce), but i like i3, openbox, fvwm, fluxbox, and wmaker | 02:55 |
| brocashelm | openbsd is great; i just updated to 7.4 | 02:55 |
| e54 | I'll stick around for bit. Not a problem really. | 02:55 |
| brocashelm | cool! | 02:55 |
| e54 | brocashelm: I did also. I want to love it and i do in many ways. Some show stoppers though. | 02:57 |
| e54 | My laptops get HOT. | 02:58 |
| brocashelm | yeah, it's more tailored towards security and router setups, but you can use it as a very basic desktop. it also depends on your hardware (thinkpads are best) | 02:58 |
| brocashelm | you can also install some of its tools on devuan, which i like | 02:58 |
| brocashelm | opendoas, openntpd, sndiod, openbsd-inetd, etc. are in the repos | 02:59 |
| brocashelm | freebsd would be the way to go if you want a linux-like *BSD os (ghostbsd even more so, which is a distribution of freebsd) | 03:00 |
| e54 | mg, tmux, doas, ssh, cwm, and more. I like em all | 03:06 |
| golinux | This has been OT for a while. Y'all know where to take it . . . :) | 03:07 |
| e54 | brocashelm: cwm if a hidden gem. Kinda a hybrid. Floating with basic tyling | 03:08 |
| e54 | golinux: sorry bro. Not really off topic talking about using OBSD tools on devuan? | 03:09 |
| e54 | golinux: If you look at "Topic" there really is no "Topic" | 03:11 |
| rrq | .. or, one can take the hint and move chit-chat to #devuan-offtopic | 03:13 |
| e54 | rrq: What is on topic please? | 03:14 |
| gnarface | e54: join #devuan-offtopic, they try to reserve this channel for support issues | 03:14 |
| gnarface | we're all over there | 03:15 |
| golinux | Anyone with working brain cells should know that . . . | 03:17 |
| * golinux is a bit grumpy . . . | 03:17 | |
| e54 | wow. golinux? you had no reason to insult me. | 03:20 |
| Xenguy | re: /topic : s/Welcome to Devuan/Welcome to Devuan's support channel | 03:24 |
| Xenguy | It's bothered me forever that 'support channel' isn't explicitly stated | 03:24 |
| Xenguy | We don't state it's a support channel, and then chide people when they stray elsewhere besides support topics | 03:25 |
| brocashelm | xenguy: i 100% agree with you, no need to be hard on the new user | 03:26 |
| golinux | Do you have ops to change it? | 03:27 |
| golinux | Xenguy: ^^^ | 03:28 |
| gnarface | how about "Welcome to Devuan Support?" | 03:30 |
| golinux | Or something like that | 03:31 |
| brocashelm | i would trim the topic as much as possible to make it easier to read on the fly | 03:31 |
| brocashelm | move "take offtopic chat to #devuan-offtopic" next to "Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org" | 03:32 |
| Xenguy | Back... | 03:36 |
| Xenguy | No ops here golinux | 03:36 |
| Xenguy | gnarface, Sounds perfect | 03:37 |
| e54 | what inspired "golinux" to insult me? Is he a rep of Devuan? | 03:38 |
| gnarface | shortening it as much as possible would probably just be "Devuan Support" but the whole undertaking was because someone complained about feeling unwelcome so that seems like it would ruin the point | 03:38 |
| gnarface | e54: golinux is a she, and she's just grumpy | 03:39 |
| e54 | gnarface: Is she a rep of Devuan? | 03:39 |
| gnarface | yes, that's why she cares about the rules | 03:40 |
| e54 | What rules? | 03:40 |
| e54 | I was talking about Openbsd tools on devuan? | 03:41 |
| e54 | This reminds me of irc 20 years ago. | 03:42 |
| e54 | I am way smarter than you. I have been told on "irc" you cant do that. I have done it. | 03:46 |
| brocashelm | e54: i understand your frustration, but let's please just let it end there for this channel | 03:47 |
| e54 | brocashelm: we were cool. Having a good conversation. Talking about Devuan. and then. | 03:48 |
| e54 | ok | 03:48 |
| brocashelm | thank you | 03:48 |
| sfox | with the new deadalus release, does this mean I can remove elogind? | 03:52 |
| gnarface | you always could remove it before... | 03:52 |
| brocashelm | sfox: you can remove elogind anytime you wish, but that will take down your kde/gnome software for starters | 03:52 |
| brocashelm | sfox: instead, look into installing dummy-logind, which is a daemonless build to avoid dependency errors | 03:53 |
| sfox | i don't have anymore gnome software since they started pushing gtk3 | 03:53 |
| brocashelm | seatd and consolekit can be used to compensate | 03:53 |
| sfox | oh good thankyou | 03:53 |
| gnarface | if you don't have a graphical login you don't need any of them | 03:53 |
| brocashelm | it depends on your window manager | 03:53 |
| sfox | i'm upgrading from chimaera now | 03:53 |
| sfox | i'm using my own window manager written in C | 03:53 |
| gnarface | if you're just using startx, you don't need any of that stuff | 03:54 |
| sfox | i'm using slim login | 03:54 |
| gnarface | that might require it | 03:54 |
| brocashelm | i think xdm and wdm work without elogind | 03:54 |
| sfox | slimlock | 03:54 |
| brocashelm | or d-bus, for that matter | 03:54 |
| sfox | what does consolekit and seatd actually do? | 03:54 |
| gnarface | session permissions management | 03:55 |
| brocashelm | consolekit (or consolekit2 specifically) was used for a while before the systemd takeover to handle user sessions, while seatd is a more minimal seat management tool that doesn't try to fight upstream decisions | 03:55 |
| brocashelm | elogind exists to aid non-systemd linux distros using kde/gnome software, but their maintainers have to fight upstream decisions | 03:56 |
| brocashelm | just as eudev exists to replace udev | 03:56 |
| brocashelm | see this thread: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=4880 | 03:57 |
| sfox | can i go back to udev now too? | 03:57 |
| brocashelm | sfox: no, because that's systemd | 03:59 |
| brocashelm | eudev is used instead, just like elogind instead of logind | 03:59 |
| brocashelm | you can still remove those if you want | 03:59 |
| sfox | what did we use before systemd? | 04:00 |
| sfox | forgive me, as i've never had a problem that requires to learn this part of the system before systemd came along and created those problems | 04:01 |
| brocashelm | that would be sysvinit | 04:02 |
| brocashelm | which devuan defaults to, but you can install openrc or runit instead | 04:02 |
| sfox | oh i didn't know it was a device manager | 04:02 |
| brocashelm | oh wait, i thought you meant init | 04:02 |
| sfox | thanks for the forum link with instructions | 04:02 |
| sfox | no i mean eudev/udev | 04:02 |
| gnarface | yes, you kinda want that | 04:03 |
| e54 | This all seems off topic | 04:03 |
| sfox | ur offtopic | 04:03 |
| gnarface | this is support, for now... | 04:03 |
| brocashelm | actually, yeah, it was udev (before systemd) | 04:03 |
| e54 | lol :) | 04:04 |
| brocashelm | and before it, devfsd and hotplug | 04:04 |
| sfox | E: Failed to fetch http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/pool/DEVUAN/main/e/elogind/libelogind-compat_246.10-5_amd64.deb Undetermined Error [IP: 88.198.100.113 80] | 04:05 |
| sfox | upgrade fails with this | 04:05 |
| gnarface | sfox: try deb.devuan.org | 04:05 |
| sfox | ok | 04:05 |
| onefang | We try to discourage using pkgmaster directly, since it's the master that all other package mirrors sync to, and keeping the load off it is good. | 04:06 |
| onefang | "Undetermined Error" doesn't give us much to work with though. | 04:07 |
| sfox | i several years ago I had to switch to pkgmaster because of a international peering issue | 04:07 |
| sfox | yeah, i don't know how to troubleshoot undertermined error. | 04:07 |
| gnarface | sfox: using a proxy perhaps? | 04:08 |
| onefang | https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt we have more mirrors scattered across the globe now. CC.deb.devuan.org is back, wher eCC is a country code that is listed there. | 04:08 |
| sfox | great | 04:09 |
| onefang | No problems turning up on apt-panopticon for pkgmirror right now. And I just woke up. | 04:09 |
| dan9er | Ladies and gentlemen, I think I've done a fuck up. My UPS is acting up so I unplugged all my drives and ran memtest off a USB to stress test my UPS without risking stressing my disks by a sudden power loss. However, by doing that, it appears I've wiped off the EFI entry for my Devuan Chimera install off my BIOS, so now I can't boot. How do I fix | 04:11 |
| dan9er | this? | 04:11 |
| sfox | Is there any security risk to using an untrustworthy mirror? the only US mirror is run by someone I know who did something terrible to my friends and I | 04:11 |
| onefang | Try the Canadian mirror then? | 04:12 |
| gnarface | sfox: i can't recreate your error, only thing i can suggest is make sure you're not using https in your sources.list | 04:13 |
| sfox | ok | 04:14 |
| gnarface | not sure what else might even cause that... maybe low disk space? | 04:15 |
| dan9er | Hello? I have an unbootable system here | 04:18 |
| dan9er | I'm downloading and flashing devuan_chimaera_4.0.3_amd64_minimal-live.iso to a USB rn | 04:18 |
| rrq | can you enter uefi bios and recreate the boot record? | 04:18 |
| rrq | some uefi bios has "boot manager" pages for doing that.. or did you zap the EFI partition? | 04:20 |
| dan9er | How would I do that? UEFI shell? | 04:20 |
| rrq | UEFI shell could work for a once-off boot | 04:20 |
| dan9er | I disconnected all the disks to run memtest off a USB | 04:21 |
| rrq | right. but the EFI partition is there .. | 04:21 |
| rrq | ? | 04:22 |
| rrq | with efi shell you start by selecting the drive.. like "FS0:" or something | 04:22 |
| onefang | Um, you had this problem AFTER you reconnected all the drives? | 04:23 |
| dan9er | onefang: yes | 04:24 |
| dan9er | rrq: How do I list the drives | 04:24 |
| dan9er | oh | 04:25 |
| dan9er | they're already listed | 04:25 |
| rrq | yeah.. like that ;) | 04:26 |
| dan9er | which one do I know is my linux install | 04:27 |
| rrq | path might be "\EFI\devuan\grubx64.efi" perhaps? | 04:28 |
| dan9er | all I have are a list of device names | 04:28 |
| rrq | check which one has \EFI directory | 04:30 |
| dan9er | I'm in EFI shell, not bash | 04:30 |
| dan9er | idk how this works | 04:30 |
| rrq | yes.. so it's a bit like a windows shell | 04:31 |
| rrq | do "FS0:" (where FS0 is drive name) to "go to that drive" | 04:31 |
| rrq | well, use your drive names | 04:31 |
| dan9er | ah i see | 04:31 |
| rrq | then do "dir \EFI" | 04:31 |
| dan9er | found it | 04:32 |
| dan9er | ls works too btw | 04:32 |
| rrq | ok.. guess with .efi file to run so as to bott devuan | 04:33 |
| dan9er | I see "fs3:\EFI\devuan\grubx64.efi" | 04:33 |
| sfox | is there any security risk to using an untrustworthy mirror? | 04:33 |
| gnarface | yea, don't do that | 04:34 |
| dan9er | so whats the magic word | 04:34 |
| sfox | onefang? | 04:34 |
| dan9er | `boot fs3:\EFI\devuan\grubx64.efi`? | 04:34 |
| rrq | dan9er: just use that filename as command .. no prfix | 04:35 |
| dan9er | Ok, I'm booted, now to regen grub... | 04:36 |
| rrq | yes | 04:36 |
| rrq | good | 04:36 |
| onefang | sfox: we use PGP signing keys to sign packages, Devuan's keys for Devuan packages, Debian's for the packages we get from Debian directly. So you could double check those keys are valid on your system. | 04:37 |
| * onefang wanders off to eat brekky. | 04:37 | |
| sfox | is package integrity the only thing we are relying on here? | 04:37 |
| rrq | dan9er: you need to run grub-install | 04:38 |
| sfox | could a malicious mirror perhaps, not server critical security updates to a specific ip? | 04:38 |
| dan9er | rrq: just `sudo grub-install`? | 04:38 |
| rrq | I think that should be enough, yes | 04:39 |
| dan9er | Yep, entry is back on my boot list | 04:41 |
| dan9er | Thank you so much! | 04:41 |
| rrq | great :) | 04:41 |
| sfox | my devuan upgrade keeps failing because of libdvdcss | 05:01 |
| sfox | libdvd-pkg: `apt-get check` failed, you may have broken packages. Aborting... | 05:01 |
| sfox | midway through | 05:01 |
| onefang | Now that I have eaten brekky... | 05:05 |
| onefang | sfox: Apt uses those PGP keys I mentioned before to check the integrity of packages it downloads from mirrors, and the integrity of the metadata files. | 05:06 |
| onefang | I wrote apt-panopticon to check on the health of package mirrors, it'll download some metadata files and packages from each mirror, and check things like hashes and PGP signatures. | 05:07 |
| sfox | Does that stop someone from selectively holding certain packages or updates like security fixes from specific ip ranges? | 05:07 |
| sfox | is it really a good idea to have 'well, they can't change the file because their signed' be the only thing holding something bad from happening back is it? | 05:07 |
| onefang | That's why we have hashes as well as hashed and signed metadata files. | 05:08 |
| sfox | oh, nice. Have you ever found anything with your tool apt-panopticon? | 05:08 |
| onefang | Shit happens, there's always things that go wrong somewhere in the world. | 05:09 |
| sfox | do you ever publish your findings from mirror healthchecks? | 05:09 |
| onefang | https://sledjhamr.org/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html http://veritas.devuan.org/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html https://ap.in.devuan.org/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html https://mishka.snork.ca/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html | 05:09 |
| onefang | They run every ten minutes. | 05:10 |
| sfox | cool | 05:11 |
| onefang | Right now they show lots of warnings in the Updated column, coz pkgmaster recently updated things, and not everyone updates at the same time. | 05:11 |
| sfox | so, to recap there is no risk in using an untrustworthy mirror and if something happens it's likely to get found? | 05:12 |
| sfox | within a timely manner i mean | 05:12 |
| gnarface | i wouldn't say that | 05:12 |
| onefang | There's always risk, especially if someone is actually targeting you. We do the best we can with the limited resources we have. Debian has more resources, and more packages. | 05:13 |
| gnarface | someone could always find a hole in one of the verification tools themselves and serve a malicious binary padded up to whatever makes a matching checksum, and also they can sell your traffic data to advertisers and the mafia | 05:13 |
| sfox | i want to understand the risks | 05:13 |
| onefang | Like I can't download every package every ten minutes to test them, there's only so much bandwidth to go around. | 05:14 |
| onefang | Debian has a reproducible builds effort to help with supply chain attacks. | 05:14 |
| sfox | i'm concerned about mentally a mentally unstable mirror sysadmin, not the mafia or adertisers | 05:15 |
| onefang | But if you don't trust that server admin, use some other mirror. | 05:15 |
| gnarface | ...or for example they could exploit a transport layer or encryption vulnerability, like that bad ssl bug they found a few years back | 05:15 |
| sfox | what happens when I use deb.devuan.org? | 05:16 |
| gnarface | it's a regular dns round-robin | 05:16 |
| gnarface | you can just dump all the IPs with nslookup or the like | 05:17 |
| gnarface | (it's basically just the mirror list) | 05:18 |
| sfox | do you know how a ip gets chosen in that list? | 05:18 |
| onefang | In the aapt-panopticon results the "DNS round robin" shows you the mirrors that are in it, and their IPs. | 05:19 |
| sfox | is it through gnulibc's resolver or some other library | 05:19 |
| gnarface | well, depends on the OS | 05:19 |
| sfox | devuan | 05:19 |
| onefang | The mirror I think you are complaining about isn't part of the DNS round robin. | 05:19 |
| sfox | it is | 05:20 |
| gnarface | uh, yes i guess it'd be glibc? | 05:20 |
| sfox | it is part of the round robin, i just checked | 05:21 |
| onefang | Soooo, which mirror? | 05:21 |
| sfox | devuan.slipfox.xyz | 05:21 |
| sfox | the admin of that server used to be in a xmpp muc I manage. (xmpp is like irc channels) | 05:22 |
| onefang | Ah, the newest USA mirror, I had forgotten about them. But as I said, I've only just woken up. lol | 05:22 |
| sfox | their admin 'slips' started harassing my friends and I, then started going off blaming me for being against trans people and wanting a haulocaust or something | 05:23 |
| onefang | dev.beard.ly is in the USA to, but not part of the DNS round robin. | 05:23 |
| sfox | ended up making other people leave because of their behavior | 05:23 |
| sfox | i tried to talk to them about it but it only ended up end this | 05:23 |
| sfox | https://0x0.st/HJDc.html | 05:24 |
| sfox | I don't really trust this person given their past behavior towards my friends and I, not just on xmpp but on other services and platforms too like activitypub (mastodon) to be downloading operating system updates from, and I don't think others should either. | 05:27 |
| e54 | golinux: go fuck yourself you stupid twat | 05:33 |
| e54 | You are a useless cunt | 05:33 |
| e54 | You tried to insult me? Fuck you | 05:34 |
| e54 | I was being nothing but nice here. You had to inject your stanky ass. fuck off | 05:36 |
| openfbtd | Now that's definitely off topic | 05:36 |
| e54 | lol | 05:36 |
| e54 | she had no write to insult me | 05:37 |
| golinux | LOL! Did I send you a letter? | 05:38 |
| e54 | If she is the voice of devuan? Devuan can go fuck itself | 05:38 |
| n4dir | i gotta remind the write to do something. | 05:38 |
| e54 | golinux: hey you dumb bitch | 05:39 |
| golinux | Having fun? | 05:39 |
| e54 | go fuck yourself | 05:39 |
| e54 | golinux: you have enough braincells to understand. dumb twat | 05:41 |
| e54 | golinux: | 05:41 |
| golinux | Your words say more about you than they do about me. | 05:42 |
| golinux | Please just stop this silliness. | 05:42 |
| e54 | golinux: You have to undersatnd? dum cunt. you started it | 05:43 |
| e54 | golinux: gofuckyourself | 05:44 |
| e54 | golinux: what are you working on? | 05:45 |
| e54 | you busy | 05:45 |
| e54 | ? | 05:45 |
| e54 | lol | 05:45 |
| sfox | onefang, let me know if you have any questions. | 05:46 |
| e54 | sfox: why is golinux here. She is a useless cunt | 05:47 |
| e54 | hey golinux, you feeling down? you call me names? you feel your ok with that? | 05:49 |
| onefang | So you are OK with calling her lots of names? Just drop it. | 05:50 |
| e54 | onefang: na. she not special. You cant just insult people. | 05:52 |
| e54 | she started on me. | 05:53 |
| golinux | There can be no offense when none is taken . . . That is a good lesson to remember. | 05:53 |
| golinux | And to live by. | 05:54 |
| e54 | What did you google that you dumb bitch | 05:54 |
| golinux | Our words, thoughts and deeds have consequences. | 05:55 |
| e54 | golinux, your words insulted me. | 05:56 |
| golinux | I may have tweaked you a bit with sarcasm . . . | 05:56 |
| e54 | you know this is logged | 05:56 |
| onefang | You know this is waaaay off topic. Take it elsewhere, or just drop it. Insults have been exchanged, end of. | 05:58 |
| e54 | golinux: dont care you stupid twat. (sarcasm) | 05:58 |
| e54 | onefang: Are you fucking stupid? This bitch insulted me. | 05:59 |
| golinux | There is no you to insult. Only a combination of mental and physical properties. | 05:59 |
| golinux | The ego is pure fiction! | 05:59 |
| golinux | Good night all. | 06:00 |
| e54 | golinux: fuck off | 06:00 |
| onefang | And you have replied with constant insults back at her. Get over it. | 06:00 |
| onefang | And now you have insulted me as well. | 06:02 |
| e54 | onefang: you jack off. Go fuck yourself | 06:02 |
| onefang | Meh, not now, too busy working to fuck myself. | 06:02 |
| e54 | onefang: you have never seen boobies you dipshit | 06:02 |
| onefang | HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! | 06:03 |
| e54 | off topic fucktard | 06:03 |
| * onefang ignores e54 who's poor widdle ego has been slightly bruised, but can't drop it. Grow up. | 06:04 | |
| e54 | This is #Devuan chat. You fucking dipshits. Wow . Never be a real distro. Your all too stupid | 06:06 |
| e54 | good luck? DEEEEEE!? | 06:07 |
| e54 | Whanna be distro. | 06:08 |
| e54 | you want init freedome? get some people in effort who arn't stupid | 06:10 |
| Xenguy | e54, Go away please | 06:22 |
| sfox | ugh, found another reason why my upgrade wasn't working. /boot is full because a microsoft bootloader was taking up 25mb of space, mainly consisting of fonts | 06:22 |
| onefang | That's in /boot/EFI ? | 06:24 |
| e54 | Xenguy: you are one of them | 06:26 |
| onefang | Have you removed old kernels and their related boot files? | 06:26 |
| Xenguy | e54, OT, go away | 06:26 |
| sfox | i figured it out | 06:29 |
| onefang | Yay! | 06:29 |
| sfox | i was still at the dist-upgrade stage while it was trying to install a initramdisk | 06:30 |
| sfox | i looked for what was taking up so much space in the efi folder and it was the microsoft bootloader's fonts | 06:30 |
| sfox | lol | 06:30 |
| e54 | hey btw. install throws error. The install media has a fuckin swap partition | 06:34 |
| e54 | when you install encrypted drives. Wtf is wrong with you guys | 06:36 |
| e54 | You have to disable swap on install media. | 06:36 |
| e54 | stupid motha fuckas | 06:37 |
| e54 | golinux? good job dumb bitch | 06:38 |
| e54 | golinux: if you had any braincells | 06:52 |
| e54 | I treat you like you treat me. No problem | 06:55 |
| e54 | golinux: candy crush? | 06:59 |
| e54 | golinux: I dont know what im doing? | 07:00 |
| e54 | golinux: When you speak? You should know what your saying. | 07:01 |
| e54 | golinux: If you are anyway involved in Devuan? fuck that. I'd rather stick my dick in a food processor | 07:05 |
| e54 | later all. i got a bitter taste in my mouth. Low tide (golinux). I'll move on | 07:10 |
| Xenguy | Good riddance | 07:19 |
| debdog | was that that guy? https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=6041 | 09:19 |
| joerg | debdog: doesn't look like | 11:43 |
| debdog | it doesn't? | 11:54 |
| debdog | what triggered that outburst then? | 11:57 |
| djph | he got mad golinux told him to take it to -offtopic, IIRC | 11:58 |
| debdog | oh, should have scrolled further back, my bad | 12:03 |
| djph | meh, people are ... people | 12:04 |
| bootdevplz | installed devuan on amd64 | 12:20 |
| bootdevplz | Loading Operating System.... hangs | 12:20 |
| bootdevplz | 0/10 stars so far | 12:20 |
| bootdevplz | EFI | 12:20 |
| bootdevplz | immediatelly after this message, I think it is from BIOS? so grub doesnt even start? | 12:21 |
| bootdevplz | do i need EFI instead legacy boot to use disk > 2.2 TB really? /boot partition is within first 1 TB of disk | 12:21 |
| * bootdevplz curses at EFI | 12:27 | |
| FatPhil | I think the limit in partitions comes from decades back | 12:33 |
| * debdog is not familiar with grub (yet). at this time of day this is a slow channel, so, just for a quick response: | 12:34 | |
| debdog | bootdevplz: you might try to boot rescue mode from your installation medium and select your root partition to be used. there you might be able to figure out whether grub was properly installed or not. | 12:34 |
| bootdevplz | hmm I will try non-EFI mode in BIOS there is some kind of option | 12:36 |
| bootdevplz | can I switch my installed system to use non-EFI, rescue boot into chroot... and... install-grub ? | 12:37 |
| debdog | not entirely certain but doesn't EFI require a different MBR? | 12:37 |
| bootdevplz | what can be the reason efi boot isnt working? | 12:44 |
| djph | bootdevplz: I've got MBR-formatted disks (err, p. sure they're mbr-formatted) that're 4T | 12:45 |
| djph | bootdevplz: but they've got only two (2) partitions -- /boot and / | 12:45 |
| bootdevplz | are they msdos partition table? | 12:45 |
| djph | that would be MBR, yes. | 12:46 |
| bootdevplz | ok so its a lie that some say you need EFI for >2.2 TB disks | 12:46 |
| djph | GPT (the new one) is used for EFI booting though | 12:46 |
| djph | you need GPT if you want to start a partition past 2T | 12:46 |
| bootdevplz | they maybe mean that some early stages of grub or OS would not access large disk with EFI... but when /boot is in first 1 TB it should be ok? | 12:46 |
| bootdevplz | oh | 12:47 |
| bootdevplz | can I boot non-EFI, from MBR, while using GPT to divide disk? | 12:47 |
| djph | It might also be further limited that it cannot SEARCH past 2.2T for the files (i.e. why for ~2T disks, you REQUIRE at least two partitions, to ensure "/boot" ends up before that wall) | 12:48 |
| djph | MBR and GPT are mutually-exclusive | 12:48 |
| bootdevplz | what an idiotic design | 12:49 |
| hiddener | i've installed gajim to test it, after removing it with purge and autoremove I get a polkit (I guess) prompt to enter the passphrase for pass, it asked the passphrase in the terminal window before... what package does this? I've removed policykit-1 and policykit-1-gnome, prompt still there | 12:49 |
| djph | bootdevplz: huh? they're two different partition tables. Like how ARM and x86 are mutually-exclusive | 12:50 |
| bootdevplz | djph I see no reason why not allow GPT to reserve first sector, so that good old BIOS can place MBR booting code there | 12:50 |
| bootdevplz | partition table format is "msdos", while MBR is just the protocol where first 512 bytes (or so) contain bootable code, and BIOS knows how to pass processor controll to that code. | 12:51 |
| bootdevplz | so I do not see while using other notation for partition locations (64-bit long integer or something) would preclude option to leave first 512 bytes for bootable code | 12:52 |
| bootdevplz | *do not see why | 12:52 |
| djph | GPT /can/ fake MBR enough that non-EFI booting will work ... but GPT and MBR themselves are mutually-exclusive | 12:54 |
| bootdevplz | so then... how to make it boot? | 12:57 |
| bootdevplz | I am in rescue shell. what now? | 12:57 |
| fsmithred | did you use one of the installer isos or a live iso? | 12:57 |
| bootdevplz | fsmithred its an installer. now I bootted up the rescue mode | 12:57 |
| fsmithred | there's an option to reinstall bootloader | 12:58 |
| fsmithred | somewere in there | 12:58 |
| bootdevplz | though why would it work when it failed during install somehow? maybe diagnose it...? | 12:58 |
| fsmithred | if you're in a shell in the installed system, you could try running 'grub-install' | 12:58 |
| fsmithred | with no device name | 12:59 |
| bootdevplz | fsmithred grub-install is for EFI mode things too? | 12:59 |
| fsmithred | yes, but you don't need to tell it where to put the bootloader. | 12:59 |
| bootdevplz | mhm ok | 12:59 |
| fsmithred | just "grub-install" | 12:59 |
| fsmithred | and it knows to put it in the efi partition | 12:59 |
| bootdevplz | what about that EFI (ESP?) partition thing? I just created 1 GB partition and Use as: EFI. is that ok? are there some special limits on that partition? | 13:00 |
| fsmithred | as for diagnosing it, I'm not really interested. I've seen grub fail to install randomly. | 13:00 |
| fsmithred | there are, and the installer knows what to do. | 13:00 |
| bootdevplz | rescude mode is not booting - it is in the blue-white console like the text mode installer. it says "rescue mode on top". but nothing shows, no menu | 13:01 |
| bootdevplz | if I press keys they are just echoed back on bottom | 13:01 |
| fsmithred | can you type a command? | 13:02 |
| fsmithred | ls | 13:02 |
| bootdevplz | ctrl-alt-f2 ... f6 shows empty textmode consoles. in debians it was possible to start a shell in that, but not here | 13:02 |
| djph | bootdevplz: my TTY's work fine | 13:02 |
| bootdevplz | nevermind - rescue mode works. it just took super long to load | 13:02 |
| bootdevplz | but it fails to mount the CDROM from which it just booted itself | 13:03 |
| Necrodiver | a quick question about beowulf: If i use the backports or proposed updates in beowulf, how much new stuff can I actually install? I'm debating a beowulf install from scratch on this pc so Im not sure if i can use some of the stuff that i can on daedalus | 13:04 |
| fsmithred | big jump from beowulf to daedalus. beowulf-backports will have same versions as chimaera. | 13:05 |
| fsmithred | bootdevplz, sorry, I have used optical media in years. I'm not sure what to say. | 13:06 |
| bootdevplz | after reboot, now with EFI mode, that worked. (or random fail dunno) | 13:06 |
| fsmithred | What worked? You're able to boot into the system now? | 13:06 |
| * bootdevplz solarflares fsmithred's priceless data | 13:07 | |
| bootdevplz | I am able to proceed in rescue mode now | 13:07 |
| Necrodiver | ah okay so backports will give me access to chimaera stuff, nice. | 13:10 |
| bootdevplz | things to do to be instantly better than Debian: | 14:47 |
| bootdevplz | add lsblk, smartctrl, hdparm, possibly vim, lshw, sensors - to netinstall, so they are by default on OS and more importantly they are in the rescue mode | 14:48 |
| bootdevplz | in rescue mode I need to mkdir /target and mount there the target in /target/root etc, or? | 15:14 |
| fsmithred | I think you can mount on /mnt | 15:16 |
| fsmithred | but all that should be selectable from installer manu | 15:17 |
| fsmithred | try "install bootloader" or whatever it's called | 15:17 |
| fsmithred | otherwise, "open shell in the installed system" or whatever that one is called. | 15:18 |
| fsmithred | manu/menu | 15:19 |
| bootdevplz | fsmithred rescue mode menu somehow fails to open my LUKS, it worked in shell | 15:24 |
| bootdevplz | efibootmgr says thissystem has no efi vars. does this means this is non EFI board??? but it has EFI/non-EFI cdrom boot options | 15:25 |
| fsmithred | is efi partition mounted at /boot/efi? | 15:25 |
| rrq | mount -t efivarfs none /sys/firmware/efi/efivars | 15:26 |
| bootdevplz | I will follow things from https://wiki.debian.org/GrubEFIReinstall should be same . yes rrq | 15:26 |
| rrq | but I think grub-install would handle that.. needs efi partition mounted | 15:33 |
| rrq | I just arrived here; would you mind summarize the issue? | 15:36 |
| fsmithred | <bootdevplz> installed devuan on amd64 | 15:45 |
| fsmithred | <bootdevplz> Loading Operating System.... hangs | 15:45 |
| bootdevplz | yea | 15:45 |
| fsmithred | so we've been trying to reinstall bootloader from installer iso | 15:45 |
| fsmithred | and rescue mode couldn't mount encrypted partition | 15:46 |
| bootdevplz | now: in chroot. efibootmgr show vars. Boot0000 EFI DVD/CDROM Boot0001 OsLoader0000 | 15:46 |
| bootdevplz | grub-install: isntalling for x86_64-efi ... error cannot find EFI directory. it is on say /dev/sda6 ... mount i? | 15:47 |
| rrq | yes, mount it on /boot/efi | 15:48 |
| rrq | (needs to be a fat filesystem) | 15:50 |
| bootdevplz | mount: unknown filesystem type 'bigbones' | 15:53 |
| bootdevplz | it worked with -t vfat... or not -t, but might I add that is pretty rude for current year 2023 | 15:53 |
| bootdevplz | grub-install: installation finished. no eorror reported. | 15:54 |
| bootdevplz | anything more to check before reboot? | 15:54 |
| rrq | should be fine I think | 15:57 |
| bootdevplz | do my lines above show? | 16:05 |
| bootdevplz | doesnt boot. show 3rd efivars entry: debian. but same result. what now | 16:06 |
| rrq | doesn't give grub prompt? | 16:07 |
| rrq | are there multiple EFI partitions? | 16:08 |
| bootdevplz | rrq just 1 efi | 16:08 |
| bootdevplz | it might be near 1 tb sector, the start of it | 16:08 |
| bootdevplz | not sure if a problem | 16:08 |
| rrq | yes that's likely a problem. UEFI is 32-bit. | 16:09 |
| bootdevplz | fffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu | 16:10 |
| * rrq bedtime.. | 16:17 | |
| * joerg reads and shudders... >>GPT drives tend to include a "protective MBR." This type of MBR says that the GPT drive has a single partition that extends across the entire drive. If you try to manage a GPT disk with an old tool that can only read MBRs, it will see a single partition that extends across the entire drive. This protective MBR ensures the old tools won't mistake the GPT drive for an unpartitioned drive and overwrite its GPT data with a new MBR.<< | 17:34 | |
| FatPhil | that sounds impossible | 17:37 |
| FatPhil | you can't express "the entire drive" - it's too big a number | 17:37 |
| joerg | just citing https://www.howtogeek.com/193669/whats-the-difference-between-gpt-and-mbr-when-partitioning-a-drive/ | 17:39 |
| joerg | not suggesting this was a particularly read-worthy source | 17:40 |
| FatPhil | backward compatibility would have been possible had GPT reserved a location big enough for an MBR to say "all the partitions are here in this space" | 17:44 |
| FatPhil | having said that, the drives with the fake MBRs can also have fake reserved space, if that's the game they want to play | 17:44 |
| FatPhil | and reserve a partition type meaning "this is a GPT drive, dumbass", to give extra hints. However, you're attempting to protect a drive in the hands of an idiot from the behaviour of an idiot. Why bother? | 17:47 |
| joerg | UEEEEEEEeeeeeee Fiiiiiiiiii | 17:47 |
| djph | joerg: you okay there? | 17:48 |
| joerg | hardly ;-D | 17:48 |
| djph | FatPhil: it's more of a "protect a GPT drive from a stupid tool because the otherwise clued-in admin is on an old-oldstable box that doesn't understand GPT at all..." (but that would've been more of a concern like 5ish years ago) | 17:50 |
| cousin_luigi | Man, I almost shat myself. I ran a destructive tool on my data drive. Good thing I stopped it immediately. | 18:17 |
| djph | cousin_luigi: that's okay, you have backups | 18:26 |
| djph | ... right? | 18:26 |
| cousin_luigi | no | 18:27 |
| cousin_luigi | Not for the first partition at least. | 18:27 |
| cousin_luigi | Are 4k blu rays good backup media? | 18:27 |
| gnarface | maybe, if you keep them somewhere that doesn't have a lot of temperature fluctuations or direct sunlight | 18:28 |
| D-HUND | IF backups on optical disks, I'd go for DVD-RAM (if the drive supports it, of course) | 18:28 |
| djph | cousin_luigi: well, at least there's nothing important on your first partition then ... right? | 18:29 |
| djph | D-HUND: is dvdram still a thing? | 18:29 |
| * D-HUND has to look that up... | 18:30 | |
| cousin_luigi | My old drive did, I broke the pcb when pulling the cable once. | 18:30 |
| cousin_luigi | Should buy a new burner someday. | 18:30 |
| gnarface | DVD care would be the same as Blueray, i assume. keep them somewhere cool and out of the sunlight and preferably with minimal temperature fluctuations, or long term you could face hastened deterioration of the plastic | 18:31 |
| gnarface | (and when reading old disks, lower the drive speed) | 18:31 |
| D-HUND | AND use slowest speed to write | 18:31 |
| * djph is lazy and just uses an external SSD | 18:32 | |
| D-HUND | djph: at least in .de they're still available, so yes | 18:32 |
| djph | ... which isn't the best option, but have you seen how expensive LTO is? | 18:32 |
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