| jirib | hi all, i'm new to devuan. it is OK that a package has systemd service unit? | 11:09 |
|---|---|---|
| brocashelm | what's the package? | 11:14 |
| jirib | spice-vdagent | 11:15 |
| brocashelm | packages which are forked by devuan usually have "devuan" appended to their versioning, so unless they end up here (https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt), the packages should not pose an issue | 11:16 |
| jirib | how to run "service" which does not have eg. runit files? is there some compat for systemd-only services? | 11:17 |
| brocashelm | haven't tried, but there is a daemonless systemctl package to resolve post-install scripts for packages needing systemd | 11:19 |
| brocashelm | it's a devuan-forked package, so it would be safe to install | 11:19 |
| brocashelm | you can use the service command to manage sysv services independent of runit (if you have runit-services installed, some of them will transition to that, like dhclient and cron) | 11:20 |
| brocashelm | so you can run services like network-manager (which are very systemd-dependent) with service instead of systemctl on a systemd distro | 11:21 |
| brocashelm | there shouldn't be any issues using services with sysv/runit/openrc unless they are mentioned in that banned packages text file from pkgmaster | 11:22 |
| brocashelm | you can also install libelogind0 instead of libsystemd0 (which is also a devuan package to only handle dependencies for installing packages) | 11:23 |
| jirib | thx, i will check it | 11:25 |
| brocashelm | np | 11:27 |
| gnarface | jirib: yes, that's fine. there's vestigial systemd service files. | 11:34 |
| jirib | https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/beowulf/full-disk-encryption seems to be a bit odd; it's not really FDE as /boot is plaintext | 11:37 |
| n4dir | i sure have way more things in /etc/init.d than in /etc/runit/runsvdir/default | 11:37 |
| n4dir | in other words it always is a bit of a mess to add, remove, start, stop services | 11:38 |
| Besnik_b | gnarface, “hibernate” did not work, it just knocked out the internet connection and that was it. :) | 11:39 |
| Besnik_b | (48c degree, left alone all night, by the way…) | 11:39 |
| gnarface | Besnik_b: oy vey... you sure your swap partition is greater than or equal to the size of your system ram? | 11:39 |
| Besnik_b | I’m not sure, but that should have been the default of automatic installation, no? | 11:40 |
| gnarface | i couldn't be sure, you can check with "free -mt" though | 11:40 |
| Besnik_b | 975 | 11:41 |
| Besnik_b | 976MiB according to gparted… | 11:41 |
| jirib | any idea if grub2 has finally got all diffs to boot from luks2 directly? | 11:42 |
| buZz | jirib: it could be FDE if /boot is on a different disk :P | 11:42 |
| buZz | like a usbstick | 11:42 |
| gnarface | Besnik_b: that's probably not enough for hibernate, you said you have 8GB system ram right? | 11:42 |
| Besnik_b | Yes, I do | 11:42 |
| gnarface | Besnik_b: then you'll need at minimum a 8GB swap partition too, and you may have to specifically point to it somewhere in the /etc/initramfs-tools/ | 11:43 |
| gnarface | hibernate basically works by copying the entire contents of your ram into the swap partition on shutdown, and then copying it back on resume | 11:44 |
| jirib | secure boot works with devuan? | 11:44 |
| gnarface | jirib: i think only if you don't have one of those crippled systems that doesn't let you add your own keys | 11:44 |
| gnarface | Besnik_b: after you have the swap partition in place, just run "update-initramfs -u" and it will tell you the UUID of the swap partition it wants to use; if it doesn't match the new 8GB swap partition's UUID it also tells you how to set it | 11:48 |
| gnarface | (somewhere in /etc/initramfs-tools/ and then you re-run update-initramfs) | 11:49 |
| jirib | gnarface: thx; i had some issue (?) to boot netboot iso with SB; but the installed system works fine | 11:49 |
| gnarface | jirib: not really my area of expertise, but several others around here are familiar with it | 11:49 |
| Besnik_b | gnarface, are you recommending recreating my swap partition? | 11:53 |
| gnarface | Besnik_b: well, if you want hibernate to work you don't have any other choice | 11:58 |
| gnarface | you don't have to replace the one you have, strictly speaking... you're allowed to have more than one swap partition | 11:58 |
| gnarface | so you could just add a new one if that's easier | 11:58 |
| gnarface | the automatic partitioner is very dumb | 11:59 |
| gnarface | it could go on a separate disk even | 12:00 |
| gnarface | the swap partition | 12:00 |
| Besnik_b | I’m still thinking how come is that need it, when the occupied RAM is ~45% of the total? | 12:01 |
| gnarface | i think it's just not smart enough to handle figuring that out | 12:02 |
| gnarface | it's not like there's any guarantee it would always be less than 45% and there's not even a guarantee it's the first 45% | 12:03 |
| gnarface | ... and if it had to decompress or process it somehow, that would require prior access to the software on disk that we're doing this to get access to in the first place... a catch-22 problem, you see? | 12:07 |
| Besnik_b | gnarface, wouldn’t be easier to expand the current swap partition? | 12:08 |
| gnarface | and it wouldn't be worth it to solve that problem because you'd have a situation where hibernation would sometimes just be refused if your ram is too full | 12:08 |
| gnarface | Besnik_b: maybe, maybe not. you can expand it if you want instead, i didn't mean to imply a distinction between expanding it or re-creating it | 12:09 |
| gnarface | either way you have to make sure update-initramfs finds the right UUID, and resizing it might also change the UUID | 12:10 |
| gnarface | it won't matter in this case which you do | 12:10 |
| gnarface | just gotta make sure it finds it | 12:10 |
| Besnik_b | Thank you! | 12:10 |
| gnarface | you might even be able to put it on a USB key, but resume time would suffer | 12:11 |
| Besnik_b | I’ try it tomorrow from a live distro enlarging the actual swap partition to 16GB, gparted let you assign the UUID I think. Jut wrote down the current one for reference… | 12:18 |
| nemo | just FYI for #devuan - tomcat10 package still does not have its init.d file (and probably has had the setting up of default runlevels removed too) | 15:43 |
| william-long | Hi all; I understand that Devuan is less bloated than Debian (replacing SystemD with better inits), but how does it fare as a server operating system? Is it as secure, reliable, and with as much software compatibility? I install Artix on nearly everything that's not a server, but I prefer stability and reliability for servers. Does Devuan offer as much as Debian? | 17:03 |
| william-long | I understand that Devuan is less bloated than Debian (replacing SystemD with better inits), but how does it fare as a server operating system? Is it as secure, reliable, and with as much software compatibility? I install Artix on nearly everything that's not a server, but I prefer stability and reliability for servers. Does Devuan offer as much as Debian? | 17:03 |
| william-long | I understand that Devuan is less bloated than Debian (replacing SystemD with better inits), but how does it fare as a server operating system? Is it as secure, reliable, and with as much software compatibility? I install Artix on nearly everything that's not a server, but I prefer stability and reliability for servers. Does Devuan offer as much as Debian? | 17:03 |
| william-long | I understand that Devuan is less bloated than Debian (replacing SystemD with better inits), but how does it fare as a server operating system? Is it as secure, reliable, and with as much software compatibility? I install Artix on nearly everything that's not a server, but I prefer stability and reliability for servers. Does Devuan offer as much as Debian? | 17:03 |
| william-long | I understand that Devuan is less bloated than Debian (replacing SystemD with better inits), but how does it fare as a server operating system? Is it as secure, reliable, and with as much software compatibility? I install Artix on nearly everything that's not a server, but I prefer stability and reliability for servers. Does Devuan offer as much as Debian? | 17:03 |
| william-long | I did not mean to send so many. Copy-pasting doesn't seem to work well on my IRC client. | 17:03 |
| Joril | william-long: I'd say that Devuan as a server is MORE reliable that Debian :D | 17:48 |
| william-long | Jodie: In what way do you mean? Just that it doesn't depend on an unstable monolith? | 17:51 |
| william-long | Joril* | 17:51 |
| leitz | I would offer that you need to define what your measure(s) of reliability are. Most of the time, any of the "server edition" Linux distro spins will be reliable enough for most use cases. What concerns do you have? | 19:56 |
| gnarface | they already left | 19:57 |
| gnarface | someone should have really mentioned that all the other packages, including the kernel, are identical to debian's, so yes, in general it's more stable | 19:58 |
| gnarface | or at least as stable | 19:58 |
| gnarface | as stable to more stable, depending on how bad a day systemd is having | 19:58 |
| DelTomix | also secure I think - which is an aspect of stability | 19:59 |
| gnarface | well, yes but only if you know how to use permissions well | 20:00 |
| gnarface | systemd removes a key underpinning of security with regards to filesystem permissions enforcement, but it's easy and convenient to make the same mistake in your own configuration without any help from systemd | 20:00 |
| DelTomix | right yes exactly | 20:01 |
| DelTomix | but I think systemd is also less "knowable" overall - if that makes any sense | 20:01 |
| gnarface | yes, it was purposefully designed to be less transparent | 20:13 |
| gnarface | but we're way off topic with this now | 20:13 |
| mrnhmath | oldie MATE plays nice with rootless X without logind changes, cool https://i.imgur.com/r8z2JvO.png | 20:26 |
| william-long | Thank you, gnarface and everybody else. | 20:56 |
| william-long | /clear | 20:56 |
| william-long | leitz: My only concerns are with the SystemD services that I generally run. For example, NginX, irc, and prosody. Does `sv up` work similarly enough to `systemctl [whatever]`? | 20:58 |
| william-long | By the way, I've been reading the logs because I'm constantly having to close my laptop's lid (at school). | 20:59 |
| gnarface | alright, william-long, since you're reading the logs (good on you!) the short version of the answer to your question is "yes" though it should be clarified that with a minimal install you'd just all the sysvinit scripts directly from /etc/init.d/ and the keywords are usually "start" and "stop" rather than "up" and "down" | 21:45 |
| gnarface | s/you'd just all/you'd just call/ | 21:45 |
| gnarface | there is a wrapper script i know of called "service" which you could use like that: `service nginx start` for example, it's in the init-system-helpers package which you're free to install if your default selections didn't grab it, though in my opinion the relative benefit of using that over just calling `/etc/init.d/nginx start` is pretty minimal | 21:47 |
| gnarface | (a "sv" wrapper might be somewhere too but if so i have never heard of it) | 21:48 |
| gnarface | in most situations, Devuan has retained the sysvinit scripts that correspond to the systemd service files Debian has been replacing them with, and when one goes missing just come back here and we'll help you locate a backup or in worst case fabricate a new one | 21:51 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
