| debdog | gnarface: set sources.list do fg.deb.devuan.org and that worked. still no clue how to figure out which server didn't work. | 04:39 |
|---|---|---|
| debdog | s/fg./fr./ | 04:41 |
| gnarface | debdog: it should be telling you the IP of the server in the errors, you can compare it to the mirror list here: http://deb.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt | 05:04 |
| debdog | gnarface: ok, will look into it later, as soon as the PC where it happend goes back up | 05:06 |
| Nietz | hi @ruenoak | 05:37 |
| ruenoak | hey Nietz | 05:38 |
| fifihyperbola | hey | 11:40 |
| cousin_luigi | Hello. I'm tinkering with an old package and I found references to "emacsen": what does it do, exactly? | 13:15 |
| rrq | https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Emacsen | 13:21 |
| debdog | gnarface (or anyone, of course): where do I find said errors? | 16:16 |
| debdog | context: <gnarface> debdog: it should be telling you the IP of the server in the errors, you can compare it to the mirror list here: http://deb.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt | 16:17 |
| debdog | I've got said problem now with another PC but cannot figure out how to view aptitude nor apt-get erros | 16:18 |
| debdog | like: | 16:18 |
| debdog | E: Release file for http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/chimaera/InRelease is expired (invalid since 6d 15h 3min 7s). Updates for this repository will not be applied. | 16:18 |
| debdog | well, I just went through the mirror list manually, seemd easier. it's that one: http://mirror.stinpriza.org/devuan/merged/dists/chimaera/InRelease | 16:46 |
| debdog | Valid-Until: Tue, 05 Dec 2023 12:15:09 UTC | 16:46 |
| debdog | do I get that right, the mirror is out of sync? | 16:50 |
| debdog | I cannot read that language, no clue how to proceed https://stinpriza.org/ | 16:50 |
| fsmithred | debdog, if you're getting redirected to a mirror that doesn't work, you could change sources.list to point to a specific mirror that does work. | 17:01 |
| debdog | fsmithred: yes. my intetnion was to contact the mirrors webmaster so they might fix it | 17:04 |
| fsmithred | I think there's a mailing list for the mirrors. Need to check with onefang. | 17:06 |
| debdog | well, I should have mentioned that | 17:06 |
| fsmithred | apt-panopticon knows about the errors on stinpriza. | 17:12 |
| debdog | http://veritas.devuan.org/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html | 17:12 |
| debdog | yah, just found that as well | 17:12 |
| fsmithred | same thing on sledjhamr | 17:13 |
| debdog | and it's marked with a big red X | 17:13 |
| Guest18 | hello | 18:01 |
| debdog | oy | 18:05 |
| cousin_luigi | Does one need debian/*.ex files if they aren't invoked by debian/rules? | 18:18 |
| cousin_luigi | I understand they are used by or for "emacsen", but I barely understand the concept | 18:18 |
| Guest18 | hello | 18:19 |
| Guest18 | whats difference between devuan and debian? | 18:20 |
| n4dir | mainly that debian per default uses systemd as an init system and devuan sysv, while you could also pick openrc or runit | 18:22 |
| Guest18 | i run both in virtual machine and i noticed both have systemd with using whereis command | 18:23 |
| Guest18 | what is that systemd? | 18:24 |
| n4dir | an init system | 18:24 |
| n4dir | or you mean what you find with whereis command? | 18:24 |
| Guest18 | i found with using whereis command | 18:24 |
| Guest18 | I have proof screenshot, but how send it? | 18:27 |
| n4dir | i get a similar result here | 18:28 |
| n4dir | funny enough dpkg -l | grep systemd doesn't list it. To make it short: i don't know more | 18:28 |
| debdog | mayhap elogind or such creates these folders for compatibility *shrug* | 18:30 |
| Guest18 | i wondering why systemd in the devuan | 18:33 |
| debdog | Guest18: it isn't as such. just some folders with that name (probably du to compatibility reasons). as long as the packages isn't installed (see the command n4dir posted to check) | 18:48 |
| rwp | Guest18, Devuan hard bans only systemd and systemd-sysv, and then the Amprolla utility generating the repository excludes recursively anything in the dependency tree that hard depends upon those two packages, creating a somewhat larger list of Debian packages uninstallable on Devuan. | 19:43 |
| rwp | That leaves some things such as libsystemd0 which installs libsystemd.so which is innocuous just sitting there and so is not excluded because that would require recompiling a lot of packages for no change in result. | 19:44 |
| rwp | As for the whereis command, it is reporting names of directories as well as other things and a lot of random packages now install systemd components into those directories. Therefore a lot of random packages like cron, postfix, e2fsprogs, rsync, openssh-server, and many more install systemd config files into those directories, for use on a systemd system. They do nothing on Devuan and cause no harm. Removing them would require recompiling for no significa | 19:47 |
| rwp | This is a result of Devuan being an overlay of a very small number of packages on top of the larger Debian package base. Almost all of the packages installed on a Devuan system are verbatim Debian packages. | 19:48 |
| rwp | cousin_luigi, *.ex files are usually ex files, edit commands for the ex editor, the ex editor being the non-visual part of the vi/vim editor, almost identical to the ed editor but a different implementation. | 19:51 |
| rwp | Where are you seeing those *.ex files in relation to emacsen? | 19:51 |
| Guest18 | what about elogind? | 20:31 |
| Guest18 | is elogind a part of systemd? | 20:31 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: Some of them have /usr/lib/emacsen-common/packages/<morestuff> inside. But that's not important now since I deleted them. | 20:33 |
| cousin_luigi | My most pressing question right now is how to update the .dsc file every time I touch the source. Checksums, to be precise. | 20:34 |
| golinux | <Guest18> is elogind a part of systemd? | 20:35 |
| golinux | No. It is the workarounf to deal with logind | 20:35 |
| golinux | There are also other packages ending in "d" that are harmless to devuan. See: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1925 | 20:37 |
| rwp | cousin_luigi, Huh? There are no *.ex files, nor mention of .ex files, anywhere in /usr/lib/emacsen-common/packages/ on my system. | 20:46 |
| rwp | cousin_luigi, Huh? Why are you hand modifying a .dsc file? That's a product of building a package. dpkg-buildpackage IIRC is the low level tool that creates it. But you almost certainly would want to be building the package the normal way and not by the low-level tool. | 20:48 |
| rwp | I recommend installing the "devscripts" package to get the "debuild" utility. Then use "debuild -us -uc" to build the package. It will produce all of the necessary files. Correctly. | 20:49 |
| rwp | The -uc -us avoids the gpg signing step. It's really a better idea to debsign as an explicit additional step. For various reasons. | 20:51 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: I'm trying to update an existing out-of-tree package, that macro was in there | 20:51 |
| rwp | I put DEBUILD_DPKG_BUILDPACKAGE_OPTS="-uc -us" in my ~/.devscripts file so that it always happens without needing me to remember those options. | 20:51 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: And I'm not building on debian | 20:51 |
| cousin_luigi | But perhaps I should. | 20:51 |
| rwp | If you are building on Devuan then Devuan *IS* Debian, with the exception of those packages depending upon systemd. | 20:52 |
| rwp | What macro was in there? I read carefully the above but am not understanding. What macro? | 20:52 |
| rwp | Seems like you are trying to rebuild the emacs package? Is that right? | 20:53 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: No, I'm building on openSUSE via OBS. Now I'm building directly on my openSUSE VM with debuild and things appear to be working | 20:56 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: The original package is an ancient mess and I'm more of a rpm person. | 20:57 |
| cousin_luigi | So far it appears to be working, but I'm trying to polish it | 20:57 |
| cousin_luigi | debian/compat was 4 | 20:58 |
| rwp | But we are in the Devuan support channel. Why are we talking about OpenSUSE here? | 20:58 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: It's a debian package I'm attempting to port to devuan. | 20:58 |
| rwp | And of course SuSE uses rpm packages not deb packages. I am getting more confused by the moment. | 20:58 |
| cousin_luigi | I was hoping to use the tools I'm accustomed to and I need help with the source rather than the tools. | 20:59 |
| rwp | If it is an actual Debian package, and does not depend upon systemd or systemd-sysv, then simply install it directly. | 20:59 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: openSUSE supplies debuild and dpkg and other tools for building packages | 20:59 |
| brocashelm | if a package is already available on debian, then it can be installed on devuan if not using systemd | 20:59 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: I need to fix it first. | 20:59 |
| cousin_luigi | There's all sorts of crud inside. | 21:00 |
| rwp | You can run an install simulation to test dependencies with "apt-get install -s ./somepackagefile-1.2.3_amd64.deb" as root and it will not do anything but will report dependency problems along with the actions. | 21:00 |
| rwp | If one is rebuilding a package that already exists then install the source to the previous package, install the build-dependencies of the previous package, then rebuild. | 21:02 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: There's no real runtime dependencies from what I can tell. But since this is a svn snapshot, it came with unapplied patches and commented out lines. And like I said, I don't know much about deb. It's just a collection of scripts, no binary is produced. | 21:02 |
| rwp | apt-get build-dep foopackage | 21:02 |
| cousin_luigi | I'm more interesting in understanding what I can remove from debian/rules | 21:02 |
| cousin_luigi | interested* | 21:02 |
| rwp | Usually everything in the debian/rules file is there because it needs to be there. | 21:03 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: It doesn't appear to be always the case. There's a dh_installdocs with no docs and dh_installexamples with no examples and dh_strip with no binaries to strip | 21:05 |
| cousin_luigi | The authors seem to have taken a skeleton file or adapted one from a different package. | 21:05 |
| cousin_luigi | So, I suppose what I'm actually asking, is some handholding while I try to understand what I actually need. | 21:06 |
| rwp | But you are not helping others to help you. You are spurting out random tidbits of this and that randomly. How is anyone going to make any sense of it? | 21:07 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: I understand and I'm sorry for that. I meant to delineate the situation in broad strokes before going to the details. | 21:08 |
| cousin_luigi | Starting from the Makefile: the only uncommented line copies files into $(DESTDIR): is that the way to do things? | 21:09 |
| cousin_luigi | Especially when the same functionality, as far as I understand, is duplicated in debian/rules | 21:09 |
| cousin_luigi | (maybe I should just read a primer or perhaps someone could suggest an example to check out) | 21:10 |
| rwp | One could probably work through a tutorial on building packages and then understand the parts better. One could start from a previously building package and then modify it without much understanding. | 21:11 |
| rwp | But one can't just start repairing a car by rummaging about in the engine and removing things randomly. What's this alternator doing in here? It's not needed to start the car. Let's remove it. | 21:11 |
| rwp | What package are you trying to build? Let's start there. | 21:11 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: it's called voyage-util. Part of the defunct voyage linux, which I used to run on my router. | 21:15 |
| cousin_luigi | the svn repository looks inaccessible now, but everything is available here https://ftp.icm.edu.pl/packages/linux-voyage/dists/0.12/voyage-util/ | 21:15 |
| rwp | I'll peek at it. Maybe others will too. | 21:17 |
| cousin_luigi | I removed a fair amount of scripts in my fork. | 21:17 |
| cousin_luigi | Right now it installs something inside /etc/default and /etc. Two or three scripts in /usr/local/sbin and a couple of inits | 21:18 |
| cousin_luigi | Plus readme, changelog and whatnot. Should be fairly simple. | 21:19 |
| cousin_luigi | http://sprunge.us/UCMGId this is my current debian/rules: can I trim it further? | 21:22 |
| rwp | cousin_luigi, I downloaded that package. I looked it over. I made the small changes needed to allow it to build on the current OS. | 23:08 |
| rwp | It is in native package format originally. But that's somewhat problematic to have you and I then hack on it. I converted it to a non-native format. | 23:09 |
| rwp | I bumped the other compatibility and standards levels such that current tools will allow building it. | 23:09 |
| rwp | cousin_luigi, Here is the result: https://www.proulx.com/~bob/debian/linux-voyage-stuff/ | 23:09 |
| rwp | Avoiding build errors I removed the dirs file and added a mkdir -p instead. You can diff the old with the new and see exactly what changes I applied. | 23:10 |
| rwp | I want to update the debian/rules file to use the new dh wrapper but only because then it would handle all the new things that have been added since that package was created and the current debian/rules file does not know about those new things. But I resisted and simply made the minimum changes. | 23:12 |
| rwp | cousin_luigi, Since I don't really know anything about the package I did not attach my name to the changelog. If this package is good for you then edit the changelog and put your name there. | 23:13 |
| rwp | cousin_luigi, Enjoy! And Good Luck! | 23:14 |
| onefang | debdog: Thanks for letting us know, though my apt-panopticon tends to stumble across these, and I keep an eye on that when I'm not bed ridden like I have been for the last couple of weeks. Another couple of days of recovery and I'll be back to herding the package mirror admins. | 23:35 |
| onefang | fsmithred: There is a mailing list for package mirror admins. Almost no traffic. It isn't open to the public. What is open to the public is the mirrors@devuan.org address that ends up in my email system, though it's mostly for the other admins to contact me. | 23:39 |
| onefang | stinpriza will be removed from the DNS-RR until things improve. | 23:40 |
| debdog | onefang: thanks! and get well soon! | 23:41 |
| onefang | I'll go back to relaxing until things improve. B-) | 23:42 |
| debdog | hehe, good plan | 23:42 |
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