| DRX | After reading, I think the sane way to do this was the way rwp said: "move all of the files out of /bin,/lib into /usr/bin,/usr/lib package by package first." | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| DRX | "Then when /bin,/lib was empty then swap them for symlinks." Yes, that is the was that makes sense to me. | 00:07 |
| rwp | Unfortunately that's not the way they decided to do things. Instead they decided to take shortcuts. Which means we now need to live with the problem, understand it, and develop processes to move forward through it regardless. | 00:09 |
| DRX | When do they expect the transition to be complete? Is it completely up to the package maintainer? (Please say no...) | 00:10 |
| golinux | I don't think that anyone has an answer to that because they haven't thought things through very well . . . but that discussion is for #off-topic | 00:12 |
| DRX | It is concerning to me because I have a number of systems running Devuan now. | 00:18 |
| DRX | I can let it go for now since they are all on stable and have 2+ years left there probably, and I can do oldstable if needed to wait for this to get sorted out. | 00:19 |
| DRX | Thanks for the info and updates. I'll shut up about this now. | 00:19 |
| gnarface | you're not alone, DRX | 00:19 |
| rwp | Running Stable is okay now. I believe that running Stable will be okay by the time of the next release of Stable. It's just right now when Unstable and Testing are going through problems that live is sad. But I am confident that by the time of Excalibur release that everything will be worked out before then. | 00:21 |
| Guest86 | Hello, how to set up and synchronize the clock without systemd? | 08:29 |
| rwp | Use ntpd. The default in Debian/Devuan is now the ntpsec package. Simply install it. | 08:29 |
| rwp | apt-get install ntpsec | 08:30 |
| Guest86 | Okay, thanks. | 08:30 |
| ra331 | test | 08:52 |
| gnarface | ra331: test acknowledged | 08:53 |
| al1r4d | o_o since when everybody use systemd thing for synchronize the clock? | 11:11 |
| al1r4d | ntp was exist for a reason | 11:11 |
| gordonDrogon | How do I turn off all console/xterm colours? I never asked for them to be on and due to my head, I need a higher contrast display. Currently apt upgrading a system and it's outputting stuff black on dark green which I can not read )-: | 12:14 |
| gnarface | if it's monotone, it sounds like you're just talking about your terminal's color profile, not ansi color coding. it would be different for every terminal in that case | 12:20 |
| gordonDrogon | I just want it the way it was before. not commands are bloated with colour options that seem to get enabled globally. | 12:23 |
| gordonDrogon | *now .. | 12:23 |
| gnarface | if you're seeing multiple different colors in the output and you're just complaining about one of them, then that might be ansi colors, but i wasn't aware of them being on by default | 12:23 |
| gnarface | changing those would be shell specific | 12:24 |
| gnarface | if you're using bash the typical location would be ~/.bashrc | 12:24 |
| gnarface | off the top of my head i don't know about the others | 12:24 |
| gnarface | did you switch from bash to zsh or something? maybe they're on by default in zsh... | 12:25 |
| gordonDrogon | something is setting TERM to xterm-256colour and it never used to. | 12:26 |
| gordonDrogon | I use tcsh | 12:26 |
| gordonDrogon | I've used tcsh/csh for 30+ years... it works for me. I've grepped every time under /etc and found nothing that might set TERM to that on login. | 12:26 |
| gnarface | i've got no idea about that one either, but fyi there is also some way to edit the color table with dircolors | 12:27 |
| gnarface | so you could just adjust it to be easier to read | 12:27 |
| gnarface | you should check your home directory for the color settings, but the TERM value might be set by default with your terminal itself | 12:27 |
| gordonDrogon | the point is; I should not have to edit colour tables - if I wanted colour I should enable it, not disable it by default. | 12:29 |
| gnarface | look, i promise i didn't do it, and i haven't seen it on by default before | 12:29 |
| gnarface | are you on testing or unstable or something like that? | 12:29 |
| gordonDrogon | this is a bad choice for people with my form of dyslexia where we need a high contrast. | 12:29 |
| gnarface | i believe you | 12:29 |
| gnarface | which terminal are you using? | 12:30 |
| gordonDrogon | xfce4-terminal | 12:30 |
| gordonDrogon | sometimes good old xterm | 12:30 |
| gnarface | not sure about the xfce4 one, but xterm and urxvt both support setting the TERM value with the -tn command-line option | 12:31 |
| gnarface | i'd check the man page for xfce4-terminal | 12:32 |
| gnarface | then just add it as an alias or something | 12:32 |
| gordonDrogon | ecen forcing TERM to xterm-mono doesn't stop it. | 12:33 |
| gordonDrogon | upgrading my laptop from B to D (via C) before I risk it on my desktop. at this rate I might not bother. | 12:39 |
| gnarface | yea, but i think that's expected behavior; i don't think forcing TERM is actually going to change any settings related to color | 12:42 |
| gnarface | it's just something to report a value that remote shells can use to infer capabilities, it's not for actually changing the capabilities locally | 12:42 |
| gnarface | you'll have to look into the login scripts for your tcsh install, like i said i expect they'll be in your home directory not /etc | 12:43 |
| gordonDrogon | sure - so it appears applicatinos are basically ignoring it. I can barely read the bottom line of apt upgrade - some sort of pale red on my yellow background. | 12:43 |
| gordonDrogon | my login scripts have not changed in 20+ years. | 12:44 |
| gnarface | hmm, well i have no other guesses | 12:44 |
| gordonDrogon | -rw-r--r-- 1 gordon gordon 1219 Oct 7 2014 .cshrc | 12:44 |
| gordonDrogon | maybe 10 but I suspect that's when I last did a migration ... | 12:44 |
| gnarface | you grepped /etc for dircolors? | 12:45 |
| gordonDrogon | I grepped it for xterm to see if anything is setting it. | 12:45 |
| gordonDrogon | I remember 'fixing' ls way back by adding a command-line option to it via an alias. or maybe removing it from the default. | 12:45 |
| gnarface | indeed the dircolors call and my ls alias are both in my ~/.bashrc together. likely you're looking for a file that contains those | 12:46 |
| gnarface | could be /etc or ~/ | 12:46 |
| gnarface | maybe it's on by default now in tcsh and you have to disable it explicitly? seems like a stretch, but theoretically possible | 12:48 |
| gnarface | try grepping for dircolors and alias | 12:48 |
| gnarface | if not, i would be tempted to just add some aliases to disable them explicitly | 12:49 |
| gnarface | no other ideas, sorry | 12:50 |
| gnarface | stick around though, someone might know | 12:51 |
| gnarface | i spent so long trying enabling them explicitly i wouldn't have noticed if they were on by default now i guess | 12:51 |
| gordonDrogon | I just can't work with lots of colours in text - syntax highlighting is impossible for me to use. | 12:54 |
| gordonDrogon | maybe I'll just go back to a vt100. focuses your mind then .. | 12:54 |
| gordonDrogon | (if only I had a real vt100!!!) | 12:54 |
| gordonDrogon | rebooted. at least it didn't change my desktop background this time.. | 12:55 |
| gordonDrogon | now to see whats briken this time.. | 13:00 |
| gnarface | hmm, you're right, apt has ansi color coding on by default now. i'm not sure when that happened, i hadn't noticed because i usually use apt-get which doesn't | 13:01 |
| gnarface | maybe it's time for you to set a bunch of aliases to disable ansi colors on a per-program basis | 13:03 |
| gnarface | only other thing i can think of would be forcing dircolors to load a monochrome color map | 13:03 |
| gnarface | my ~/.bashrc has an old if statement surrounding the aliases that only enables them if TERM isn't set to "dumb" but i can't advise setting TERM to dumb because i vaguely recall it might have other consequences | 13:05 |
| gordonDrogon | if only there was a way for any program to look in one common file for colours or not ... | 13:26 |
| gordonDrogon | rather than every millenial adding in mor and more bloat into every individual command )-: | 13:27 |
| gordonDrogon | 2046 packages on my laptop and 192 processes running. it's a far cry from the v6 I started with all those decades back... /get off my lawn/ etc. | 13:32 |
| gordonDrogon | aarg. now it's highlighting stuff I past.. | 13:34 |
| gordonDrogon | stopppit! | 13:34 |
| gordonDrogon | someone, somewhere decided this was a good thing, so they spent their time and energy writing code to do it. You wasted your time. I know this isn't devuan specific, but Arrrgh. | 13:37 |
| djph | gordonDrogon: oi! you take that back | 13:38 |
| djph | *SOME* of us hung out with the old guys, and learned why our "great ideas" were stupid :P | 13:39 |
| gordonDrogon | nope. I'm old and entitled to be grumpy. | 13:39 |
| djph | okay boomer :P | 13:39 |
| gordonDrogon | Yup, I'm an OK Boomer. | 13:39 |
| djph | ha. Anyway, before we get yelled at for being off topic, I generally agree that many of the color-schemes in VTYs are troublesome. | 13:40 |
| djph | but even that might still be OT.. | 13:41 |
| gordonDrogon | it's not just here - far too many websites have poor contrast on their text. In some cases I have to highlight the text just to read it. | 13:41 |
| djph | gordonDrogon: oh wait, are you using 'apt' ? just go back to 'apt-get' (and then it doesn't faff about with breaking things) | 13:41 |
| gordonDrogon | great if your young or don't have contrast/dyslexia issues... | 13:41 |
| gordonDrogon | djph, yea, I will. I stupidly copy & pasted the upgrade destructions from devian.org ... | 13:42 |
| djph | My website's typically amber-on-black, because lynx respects my color choices. | 13:42 |
| djph | (noting, of course, a GUI browser would render it as black-on-white) | 13:42 |
| gordonDrogon | ok, the highlighted pasted text is a new bash thing. it can be turned off, but why was it on by default? | 13:43 |
| gordonDrogon | glad I don't use bash regularly. | 13:44 |
| djph | IDK, I've never seen it weirdly highlight | 13:44 |
| gordonDrogon | it's some option - try: bind -v | grep bracketed | 13:47 |
| gordonDrogon | I found about it here: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1334205/pasted-text-in-gnome-terminal-in-21-04-is-always-highlighted | 13:48 |
| gordonDrogon | but apart from that. laptop seems happy with the B -> C -> D update. Can I go from B directly to D? | 13:49 |
| gordonDrogon | except xfce4 has lost all my keybindings. | 13:53 |
| gordonDrogon | ffs. | 13:53 |
| gordonDrogon | applications seem to have lost their 'recent files' too. pita. | 13:54 |
| Juest | parazyd: excuse me, any updates to heads yet? | 14:04 |
| Joril1 | gordonDrogon: AFAIK upgrades that skip a release are not supported | 14:05 |
| gordonDrogon | Joril1, thanks. doin it in stages wasn't too bad on my laptop - I just need to find time for my desktop which is more critical to me. | 14:06 |
| gordonDrogon | but stupid things like losing all my keybindings at the upgrade have really pissed me off. | 14:09 |
| djph | that's quite odd -- I've never seen an update up and trash my dotfiles ... | 14:10 |
| djph | THEN AGAIN, if they've moved (as sometimes happens...) | 14:10 |
| Joril1 | regarding apt, it looks like you can disable colors adding Binary::apt::APT::Color "0"; to apt.conf | 14:10 |
| Joril1 | (or a new file inside /etc/apt.conf.d) | 14:11 |
| Joril1 | (sorry, /etc/apt/apt.conf.d) | 14:11 |
| gordonDrogon | Joril1, the point is; I never asked for colours to be enabled in the first place. | 14:13 |
| Joril1 | Judging by https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/-/blame/main/apt-private/private-output.cc it looks like colors where introduced 10 years ago, but you can set a NO_COLOR environment variable to disable them | 14:23 |
| Joril1 | Funny discovery: https://no-color.org :D | 14:24 |
| gordonDrogon | *sigh* | 14:43 |
| gordonDrogon | One day, someone, somewhere will be sued by someone so badly colour blind that they make a fatal mistake. I hope I'm not there to see it happen. | 14:44 |
| ra33 | Test | 15:11 |
| gordonDrogon | Their test obviously failed. | 15:31 |
| djph | gordonDrogon: like playing RPG's where "good guys" are green, and "bad guys" are red? | 15:35 |
| gordonDrogon | it's all black and white to me ... | 16:32 |
| gordonDrogon | actually, I'm not colour blind, I just need a high contrast to make things easy to read, else I start to really muddle letters and words up. | 16:32 |
| plasma41 | gordonDrogon: https://no-color.org/ | 21:30 |
| gordonDrogon | plasma41, thanks. mentioned earlier - looks like it /may/ help. the issue I'm having is that things changed and in my case for the worse. the on-going enshittification of Linux distros ... | 21:31 |
| gordonDrogon | just look at the list of libraries and utilities that now do colour by default! that's nothing more than bloat for bloats sake. | 21:31 |
| rustyaxe | Ive a fun problem.. I need to recompile a subset of devuan and make a private repo for it. pretty much whatever packages are currently installed on the target machine.. Any docs/official way to do this? | 21:42 |
| plasma41 | rustyaxe: apt-build exists, but I've not yet personally tried it out. | 21:46 |
| rustyaxe | handful of libraries need reconfigured (and thus a cascade of package linked to rebuilt) - but i'd like to have something repeatable i can come back to some other time, have it slurp down the apt-source files for each and slap my patches on. not sure how devuan automates pulling in upstream from debian but i suspect a similar process manually done from time to time would make my life a lot easier.. right | 21:52 |
| rustyaxe | now only 3 of these exist but they will multiple someday | 21:52 |
| gnarface | rustyaxe: there's a few different tools, i usually use dpkg-buildpackage on the source packages | 23:35 |
| gnarface | i usually had been going by this, as it's the official docs: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/build.en.html | 23:36 |
| gnarface | but there's some other competing tool sets and methods i'm vaguely aware exist, and there may be more streamlined devuan docs somewhere... | 23:37 |
| gnarface | (i'm pretty sure there are in fact, but i keep forgetting where they are) | 23:38 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!