freenode/#devuan/ Friday, 2019-05-03

blebanyone notice that there no mail icon in xfce?00:50
furrywolfdunno, I haven't used local mail on any system with X in a very long time.00:51
gnarfacebleb: there's icons in other packages00:51
gnarfacemake sure you have xfdesktop4-data though00:52
blebyeah i do00:55
gnarfacethis might be useful too: apt-cache search '\-icon(s|\-)'00:55
blebwhat i notice is that whisker menu has an entry for "Mail reader" and there's no icon for it00:56
gnarfacei remember having to install tango-icon-theme some time ago because gtk buttons went missing in firefox00:56
gnarfaceyou just can't assume everything is carefully packaged with it's own icons00:56
gnarfaceit's good to have a few sets just in case00:56
gnarfacei still end up having to make my own now and then anyway00:57
blebthe thing is xubuntu has the same whisker menu but there is a generic mail icon00:58
bleball the other icons are the same so idk why the mail one would be missing in devuan00:58
gnarfacethey should mostly get installed in /usr/share/icons or /usr/share/pixmaps so you can just go browsing through there too.  maybe there is actually already a generic mail icon on your system and it's just not been assigned to this app in your xfce version00:58
golinuxwhisker menu is not native to Xfce00:59
golinuxSo just add the icon of your choice from wherever.01:00
golinuxI switch a lot of icons around all the time.01:01
gnarfaceah i see, it is a plugin01:03
gnarfacealternate menus01:03
gnarfacebleb: xubuntu probably just has a newer version of it, that's all.  i wouldn't sweat it.  there's boatloads of icons in the repo01:11
scoofyOneManHateGroup: use uid=user,gid=group in your /etc/fstab to set owner of mounted fat usb hdds. to have multiple owners, reformat the hdd as ext4 as fat doesn't support users and permissions08:06
uioFor the non-experienced user, is there any real difference between Debian and Devuan?10:27
debdoghmm, bi vs. vu?10:28
debdogsome essential things like sources.list differ.10:29
debdogso not all debian based howtos will fit10:29
MinceRdevuan is more likely to boot and shutdown successfully10:45
uioI've never had an issue with this in Debian, but interesting....10:47
MinceRi haven't used systemd in debian, but it's hell in ubuntu11:02
HundDid Debian do something to their font rendering the past month(s) or so?11:33
gnarfaceHund: it was longer ago than the last month, but yes, font rendering with freetype was fundamentally changed at some point maybe in the last year or so19:31
gnarfacei think you can dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config to change it back to more like the way it used to be (not completely, but nearly anyway)19:33
Hundgnarface: Aw, crap. It's just as blurry as with the Ubuntu family now. I can't stand it.. I'll see what I can do about it.19:49
gnarfaceHund: i confirmed it's "dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config"19:50
HundOkey. :) Thanks!19:50
HundWeirdly enough it's only one machine that's affected.19:51
gnarfaceHund: some fonts may show bigger differences than others, as it had to do with using hinting data in the font files that was not always provided20:01
gnarfacebefore some specific version of the tool, that data would have been uniformly ignored20:02
Hundgnarface: Okey. :)20:16
gnarfaceoh, since it's hinting data, i think differences also may be more pronounced at different dpi/resolution/font sizes20:16
Hundgnarface: I know. :) It's the same computer, same monitor, same font, same everything. :)21:03
blebso i just did a fresh install of ascii21:40
blebnow apt-get update doesn't work because it's warning me with:21:41
blebW: The repository 'cdrom://devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1 ascii Release' does not have a Release file.21:41
slvrso remove that source21:44
slvrit is probably listed in /etc/apt/sources.list, just put a # infront of it.21:44
yae7nae4I was trying to update my devuan ascii on my rpi3 but get some segmentation fault. currently apt --fix-broken install can't finish installing mariadb-server, any idea on how to fix it?
slvrI did bump into that....21:46
gnarfacebleb: i think that happens when you don't configure a network device during the install, it just leaves the install cd in as the source and doesn't ask you to pick any mirrors.  you gotta change it manually now.  (expected behavior inherited from debian)21:47
gnarfaceyae7nae4: low on ram due to gpu/cpu config split too much to gpu maybe?21:48
gnarfaceyae7nae4: (use and i'll look at it)21:48
blebgnarface, slvr: yeah removing it worked21:51
blebgood to know that it's expected behavior21:51
gnarfaceit's primarily designed to be a networked operating system, but they left contingencies in place for people stuck with "sneaker net"21:52
slvrMaybe if it had a nice "Please insert your Windows 98 cdrom" message it'd be less confusing. :p21:53
yae7nae4gnarface: maybe not. I tried to reboot, and there are still lots of free ram
gnarfacethese days they probably wouldn't have bothered, but back then it wasn't common for everyone to have access to 3 different ISP-grade T1 speed or faster connections21:53
blebso in the 90s people would order cds containing upgraded packages?21:54
gnarfaceor they'd burn them at work and take them home21:54
blebmakes sense21:54
gnarfacebut if you're not connected to a network in the first place, a huge amount of the security updates to the stable distribution are arguably irrelevant to you, so they'd also just often forgo upgrades21:55
gnarfaceyou still see people doing this for isolated clusters used for research projects21:56
gnarfaceor top secret business stuff21:56
slvror just offline only boxen in general21:56
blebah yeah21:56
gnarface(you know, at the type of companies where they epoxy all the USB ports closed)21:56
slvreg, kids computer21:56
gnarfaceyae7nae4: yikes, this looks disturbing.  segfaults left and right.... i'm afraid to say what my primary suspicion is21:57
gnarfacedo we have anything like memtest86+ for ARM hardware yet?21:58
yae7nae4IDK. btw I was trying to build nginx with "apt-get build-dep nginx" and "apt-get source nginx" but failed. then I tried to update devuan and get this error.21:59
slvrhow's your therms? Overclocked?21:59
yae7nae4(failed at building nginx, not apt21:59
gnarfaceyae7nae4: it looks like you have enough ram, though i do note that you don't have any swap.... i worry that this could be a sign of bad ram.  the only other thing that could cause so many segfaults aside from hardware failure is some massively bad mismatch between your libc and the rest of the system, or something like that.  if this is just a regular stable install that you were doing a normal upgrade on and your22:00
gnarfacesources.list is pointing to known-good repos, this should really not have happened....22:00
yae7nae4slvr: no, not overlocked. just normal rpi3 and don't have much customization.22:00
slvrmine was pretty unstable with kodi until I put a case on it with more airflow22:01
gnarfaceyea overheating might be a culprit...22:01
slvrif the ram is causing problems, it's heat, not damaged cells. I don't think it would be very easy to static damage bga ram chips.22:01
gnarfaceyea they're supposed to be pretty tough22:02
gnarfaceyou'd have to try hard at least22:02
slvrhow much power are you giving it? At least 5v 1amp?22:02
slvrThey dump out under heavy load with insufficient amperage.22:03
yae7nae4seems any other apt commands does not making much changes if I the "apt --fix-broken install" command keep failing. apt just keep asking to run it fix-broken command..22:03
slvryae7nae4: it's stuck. you might need to remove maria-db to unstuck it.22:03
slvrOr install with service start disabled22:04
yae7nae4slvr: oh wait I have to power it off to check. but I have keep it running for over one years on this status without changing any hardware.22:04
gnarfaceyae7nae4: as a sanity check, show me your /etc/apt/sources.list and your /boot/config.txt (don't forget to omit any paid-for hardware decoder keys if you have them)22:04
slvryae7nae4: if it has been stable a year, I think we can assume power is ok.22:05
gnarfacewell, power supplies can go bad22:05
yae7nae4slvr: I can't remove or purge anything. apt just keep asking to run fix-broken.22:06
gnarfacethough on my rpi1 when it has insufficient power it usually just freezes entirely, rather than segfaulting22:06
slvrgnarface: yeah, or reboot22:06
slvrsegfault makes me think there's an active lib conflict.22:06
yae7nae4already tried to reboot once. also tried to run `dpkg-reconfigure -a` but only have error for mariadb-server cuz it's not installed.22:07
slvrremoving packages that block other packages can move it forward22:07
gnarfaceyae7nae4: if you mixed repos, like from debian or raspbian, or even just other versions of devuan, it might have pulled in extra libs that it shouldn't have, replacing native stuff.  that could cause something like this too.22:08
slvruh... for the mariadb service start issue. I think I just relinked the start script to /bin/true to make it move forward, then reinstalled properly. Giant ugly hack though.22:08
yae7nae4slvr: but I can't remove anything (with apt)22:08
slvrmoving from ascii to beowolf. Maybe jessie to ascii. I don't remember.22:08
slvryou can use dpkg22:09
yae7nae4gnu_srs2: only have devuan-ascii and nodesource repo.22:09
slvrif you run apt-get dist-upgrade, what is the first error?22:12
gnarfaceyae7nae4: (i assume that was meant to be to me) - i would still like to see the files to scan them for mistakes.  for example, "auto.mirror..." is deprecated now as a hostname, but you might still get answers from servers that are bad22:13
gnarfaceyae7nae4: if you don't want to show it, just look at this example of mine at least:
yae7nae4gnu_srs2: am using, seems fine? btw am trying to remove some packages, and the network speed is a bit slow while updating, sorry for the late reply22:17
gnarfacehmmm.  pkgmaster should work, not sure about packages22:18
gnarfacethat node.js source is a usual suspect though22:19
gnarfacethat's no proof it's got anything to do with this, just that i keep seeing it in association with severe mishaps22:19
slvr3rd party repos make dist-upgrade difficult22:20
yae7nae4I have removed mysql-server (which seems the package required mariadb stuff), but apt is keep asking me to run fix-broken but it always end with failed on installing mariadb-server.
slvryae7nae4: is python3 broken or working?22:28
yae7nae4slvr: seems works, at least "python3 -m http.server" works well.22:29
gnarfaceyae7nae4: mariadb-server and mariadb-server-core aren't packages.  try "sudo dpkg -r mariadb-server-10.1" and "sudo dpkg -r mariadb-server-core-10.1"22:29
gnarfaceyae7nae4: when you see output like that, you have to use the literal whole string that "dpkg -l" lists as the package name22:31
yae7nae4gnarface: got error
gnarfaceyae7nae4: yikes.  and it segfaults if you try to do what it says first?22:33
yae7nae4gnarface: "sudo apt install mariadb-server-10.1" this? still got that error
gnarfaceyae7nae4: damn.  where did that mariadb-server package come from originally?22:36
KatolaZgnarface: mariadb-service is a metapackage22:36
KatolaZwhich depends on the actual version available in the release22:36
gnarfaceKatolaZ: i know that's not what i meant22:36
KatolaZmissed the backlog22:37
gnarfaceKatolaZ: i'm trying to figure out if he's upgrading from something that came from out of the distro, like from the nodejs repo accidentally...22:37
yae7nae4gnarface: IDK, I don't remembered I installed it or not. I thought it was not shown in "apt-mark showmanual" before (I was installed mysql-server, maybe it's a dependency of it?)22:38
gnarfaceKatolaZ: he's in a troubling catch-22 of segfaults and broken package dependencies, and i'm just trying to see if i can figure out any way out of it without him doing a full reinstall only to discover fried RAM.  there's nothing like memtest86+ for ARM hardware yet, is there?22:38
yae7nae4but now "mariadb-server-10.1" was in "apt-mark showmanual" (maybe because of I tried to install it with apt)22:38
KatolaZyae7nae4: which ARM board?22:40
KatolaZand are you sure that the SD card is OK?22:40
yae7nae4KatolaZ: Raspberry Pi 322:41
slvranything in dmesg?22:41
KatolaZsegfaults in these cases are most probably hardware failures22:41
slvr(I/O errors?)22:41
gnarfaceKatolaZ: if it could be the SD card failing, it could be that old ext4 filesystem corruption bug too though, right?22:41
yae7nae4KatolaZ: well, am not sure. actually I used to have some vim error (can't edit files, I don't remember the exact error msg) but works fine after reboot22:42
KatolaZyae7nae4: your SD card is failing22:42
KatolaZmost probably22:42
KatolaZlook into dmesg22:42
KatolaZand you will see a lot of I/O errors22:42
gnarfaceKatolaZ: he's also running without SWAP.   i'm not sure if that could have instigated this but i've always been suspicious of doing that22:42
KatolaZwell could be but you won't get segfault22:43
slvrrunning swapon on some random big file wouldn't hurt22:43
slvrer, making said file, running mkswap, then swapon.22:43
KatolaZstill, if the system rund our of memory, processes are killed with sigkill22:43
KatolaZand they would print "Killed" on the CLI22:43
slvrcould a child with a sigkill cause a parent to seg fault?22:43
KatolaZthis is not RAM IMHO22:43
KatolaZthis is most probably a failing SD card22:43
KatolaZslvr: nope22:44
KatolaZunless the parent segfaults in the routine that handles the wait()22:44
KatolaZ(which is unlikely)22:44
yae7nae4KatolaZ: don't have I/O error in dmesg but there are a few "EXT4-fs error" dmesg log:
slvryep you're in trouble22:46
KatolaZyae7nae4: you most probably have a failing SD card22:46
slvrit might not even be bad. It might just be unsuitable.22:46
slvrsome devices are picky22:46
yae7nae4gnarface: show I use SWAP in the further? I thought it's not suitable for using swap in microSD, or I should create SWAP partition (or file) in USB devices?22:47
slvrI'd put it on usb, but it sounds like it won't help.22:48
gnarfaceKatolaZ: i think it could be indistinguishable from that old bug upgrading ext4 filesystems that causes corruption down the road though, no?22:48
gnarfaceKatolaZ: i ran into it myself on some upgrades22:48
gnarfaceyae7nae4: the lack of SWAP probably didn't actually cause this.  but yes, you should always have some SWAP22:49
KatolaZgnarface: that bug should appear on the first mount22:50
KatolaZif it is the one related to e2fsprogs22:50
KatolaZit should refuse to mount the FS the first time22:50
KatolaZand it should be solved by nos22:50
gnarfaceyae7nae4: (the fact you really need SWAP for reliability is a bad problem combined with the fact SWAP is hard on flash and flash is the way all storage is going these days.  if that bugs you, you could always SWAP to NFS or something instead)22:50
yae7nae4ok. I may try to test microSD and reinstall it later. btw badblocks is enough for checking microSD problems, right?22:51
gnarfaceKatolaZ: yea it should be solved by now but i guess i was working on the hypothesis that his filesystem corrupted some time ago and just didn't get bad enough to show it until now22:51
gnarfaceyae7nae4: badblocks will work on microSD yes22:51

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