freenode/#devuan/ Saturday, 2019-05-04

furrywolfanyone here involved with packaging firefox?  can someone rush out a build with extension signing disabled, which it should be anyway?06:28
furrywolfI've said for literally years that extension signing was morally wrong, and now they've gone and proved it's technically wrong to.  we really should build without it.06:57
furrywolftoo06:58
blebthey should just drop the current firefox branch and start developing firefox as a fork of pale moon07:22
jiefkbleb yes, I wish Pale Moon, Basilisk or Seamonkey to be more in the front line08:54
HundI use IceCat and I have no issues.11:04
HundI would like to not use anything based of Firefox as my secondary browser at all though. Their addons is pretty good though.11:04
r3bootTsja; extension signing does solve a real problem. The issue at hand here is more related to Mozilla operations then FF tbh11:14
r3bootexpired certificates happens to (almost) everyone who handles certificates, btw, until $org learns to automate the process (if at all possible)11:15
brocashelmotter is my favorite secondary browser11:28
jiefkI'm still with my laptop having some troubles and I'm searching how to untangle things.13:13
jiefkFrom the most visible things, with the 4.19.0.2 kernel, SDDM or LightDM starts fine and touchpad is working13:15
jiefkwith 4.19.0.4, X does not start and I have no touchpad13:15
jiefkCan someone point me to some commands I can use to find what's going on ?13:17
rrqmaybe "less /var/log/Xorg.0.log" says something?13:31
bdaxis it possible to use some of devuan's packages (network-manager, etc) in debian stretch?15:36
bdaxor debian jessie if not stretch15:39
furrywolfyou probably can, but you may run into problems with them depending on other devuan-specific builds15:41
bdaxhmm15:50
bdaxcouldn't devuan's aim be achieved by providing a custom repository that has none-systemd versions of packages like network-manager, and a script that swaps systemd for sysvinit?15:50
fsmithredisn't that what we already do?15:53
bdaxdevuan is a separate distribution isn't it?15:57
bdaxI mean without being separate from debian15:57
fsmithredyes, but we only have about 100 packages15:57
fsmithredthe rest get merged from debian into our repos15:57
fsmithredso most of the packages come from debian unchanged15:57
fsmithredbut for devuan you need to use only devuan repos - if you mix debian repos you're sure to run into problems15:58
fsmithredwhat's the appeal of devuan's network-manager?15:58
bdaxdoes it have to be that way? can't compatibility with debian be maintained?15:58
bdaxbecause it doesn't rely on systemd15:58
fsmithredmaybe - they're coming around15:59
fsmithredrecent report from someone running sid without systemd15:59
fsmithredand I mean with no systemd packages installed15:59
bdaxyeah I've done that with stretch by following this: https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Debian_Stretch_installation16:00
fsmithredthat's a result of joint efforts between devuan and debian devs16:00
bdaxbut the repository listed there is deprecated so I was wondering about devuan's16:00
bdaxoh i see16:00
bdaxso it's official?16:00
bdaxinteresting16:00
fsmithredwhat's official?16:01
bdaxan official experiment I mean16:01
KatolaZbdax: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/16:01
KatolaZbdax: experiment of what?16:01
KatolaZo_O16:02
bdaxfsmithred> recent report from someone running sid without systemd16:02
fsmithredyeah, because of elogind16:02
bdaxwell, either way i t would be nice to be able to use debian without systemd, but still use network-manager etc16:03
fsmithredI don't understand what you're trying to accomplish16:04
bdaxdebian with sysvinit, with network-manager16:04
bdaxthat's not currently possible afaik16:04
fsmithredoh, ok16:04
bdaxbut if I could somehow add devuan's repo to stretch, I could use its network-manager16:04
furrywolfyou could just use devuan.  :)16:04
fsmithredwell, you can try it, but you may run into problems with policykit, udev, dbus or some other shit16:04
fsmithred<furrywolf> you could just use devuan.  :)16:05
fsmithredwell yeah, that's kinda why we made it16:05
bdaxyeah but switching distros just to remove systemd seems overkill imho, especially downgrading to jessie to do it16:06
fsmithredwtf downgrade to jessie?16:07
bdaxis devuan based off stretch now?16:07
fsmithredif you're on stretch, you can migrate to ascii16:07
bdaxah okay16:07
fsmithredsince last june16:07
fsmithredyou could even upgrade to beowulf (buster) if you're daring. It's pretty good.16:08
fsmithreddaring and want to participate in testing16:08
fsmithredit's not overkill because systemd is so entrenched in everything else, you can't remove it with a simple script.16:09
furrywolfwe need a debian package that modifies sources, updates, and upgrades...   so people can just do apt-get install devuan.  :)16:09
fsmithredoh16:10
fsmithredthat would require about four or five commands16:10
furrywolfalso, it will be very amusing to see what debian says when asked to include it.16:10
bdaxwell I have lot of respect for what devuan's doing, but it seems devuan's work could reach a wider audience if it maintained debian compatibility, so people like me that don't want to switch distros could add its repo, run a script and be done with16:10
fsmithredlol16:10
bdaxand it's clearly possible in a script: https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Debian_Stretch_installation16:10
bdaxthat manages with a repo with like 4 packages16:11
KatolaZbdax: Debian would have reached a wider audicence if it would have maintained sysvinit compatibility....16:11
KatolaZthey are still opposing many attempts to upstream packages to accomplish that16:11
KatolaZlike elogind and eudev16:11
bdaxthat's their business, if some third party provided the means I'd install it manually16:11
KatolaZo_O16:12
fsmithredbdax, that script adds a repo that replaces a lot of packages which have been re-packaged to not require systemd. That's the same thing we do.16:12
KatolaZdevuan is the means16:12
bdaxfsmithred: exactly, without requiring a distro switch16:12
KatolaZ:)16:12
bdaxno reinstall needed16:12
KatolaZbdax: resinstall of what?16:12
fsmithredno reinstall needed to migrate to devuan16:12
bdaxmy system16:12
KatolaZyou can just migrate from debian to devuan16:13
fsmithredjust upgrade like you would with debian16:13
KatolaZwithout a problem16:13
fsmithreddevuan IS debian (about 95% debian)16:13
bdaxeither way, I'd rather not, I'd prefer to keep to debian, but use devuan's repo as in that link16:13
fsmithredwe put guards at the door so systemd does not sneak in16:13
bdaxyou can do that with pinning16:13
KatolaZbdax: that will require quite a bit of pinning16:13
fsmithredyeah16:13
KatolaZbut you are free to choose your poison :)16:13
fsmithredlol16:14
bdaxone command in that link16:14
KatolaZgreat, go with the link16:14
KatolaZ:)16:14
bdaxthe link is deprecated, but it shows it's possible16:14
fsmithredyeah, he hasn't kept up with versions16:14
bdaxdevuan is maintained, but requires switching distros16:14
bdaxI don't mean to sound argumentative, my only question is is can't devuan do the same? maintain compatibility16:15
fsmithredswitching distros means editing a few lines in sources.list16:15
furrywolfbbl, day-starting things16:15
KatolaZbdax: again, we can't16:15
KatolaZbecause debian is opposing these changes to be upstreamed16:15
KatolaZdo you understand that or not?16:15
bdaxapparently not, why does it need to be upstreamed to be compatible?16:15
KatolaZbdax: remove systemd, and you will find out16:16
bdaxI just did, it works fine until I install network manager, etc16:16
KatolaZgreat16:16
fsmithredwhat desktop are you using?16:16
bdaxbspwm16:16
fsmithredyeah, I figured - a window manager16:16
fsmithredthat does make it a lot easier16:16
KatolaZif you want network-manager you need either a version that patches out the dep on libpam-systemd or you need to use and configure elogind16:17
fsmithredbrb. need coffee16:18
bdaxwell, good stuff, if it's not possible it's not possible. would be nice though to be able to just add devuan to my apt/sources.list, pin a few things and carry on with debian16:19
bdaxthanks for listening people, good luck and keep up the good work16:19
KatolaZbdax: just try it16:20
KatolaZbut you need some serious pinning work16:20
KatolaZyou'll realise by yourself, maybe16:20
DocScrutinizer05hi folks. Is there any generic API for adjusting "runtime config" parameters of processes during runtime? Example to explain better: when I start a `scp -l 20000` with bandwidth limit 20Mb/s, is there any *generic* existing best-practice concept how you'd design such cmdline tools so that you could change the "20000" to a different value during runtime?18:35
DocScrutinizer05I think _some_ programs would tolerate running under gdb and let the variable in memory get modified during runtime. Some for sure will blow chunks when you do such nasty hacks18:37
bdaxi don't know about standard, but I really like bspwm's approach of listening on a socket, then its client program bspc, a client, sends message to reconfigure it during runtime18:38
DocScrutinizer05I think there might exist a lib to facilitate this18:38
DocScrutinizer05bdax: sounds good18:39
bdaxdoes anyone know if there's a devuan equivalent of these isos: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/18:41
bdaxotherwise what's the method of enabling wifi adapters that require non-free firmware during installation?18:42
bdaxah nvm, I'll just use a second usb I suppose18:49
JohnDoe2_flashed the devuan 2G image on C201 as instructed in the wiki but the chromebook fails to boot. It loops through the sequence twice and then displays "invalid recovery image". What am I doing wrong?18:55
XenguyIs there a smaller/lighter image you can use?19:20
JohnDoe2_it's not heavy, I don't think it has xorg installed19:28
JohnDoe2_I also flashed the 16G image directly to the emmc with the same result19:28
JohnDoe2_if however I flash it to a usb stick it boots fine19:28
gnarfaceif bdax comes back, someone tell him the devuan netinstall already includes the firmware19:42
gnarface(but that some popular intel wifi chips need newer versions than what is in ascii)19:42
pavloshowto autologin ... devuan 2.0 ascii22:08
pavloschanged /etc/slim.conf autologin yes but it does not22:10
Syllinpavlos: you're sure you're using slim, right? you might be configured to use a different DM by accident22:10
Syllinyou could try uninstalling all DMs with `apt`. i'm just guessing though22:11
pavlosSyllin: if I type pstree, I see slim, then Xorg22:11
Syllinmakes sense, guess that theory is shot22:12
Syllintheres a purple note here about having a default user. maybe thats it? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/SLiM#Enable_Autologin22:13
pavloshttps://imgur.com/a/nAU02nz22:14
pavlosEdit /etc/slim.conf to uncomment the auto_login command and replace no with yes:  ... I did that, rebooted, still asks for user/pw22:15
gnarfacethe user exists, right?22:17
fsmithredpavlos, I have 'default_user' and 'auto_login' in use22:17
pavlosyes, user22:17
pavlosletme find the default_user part22:18
fsmithredit's a few lines above auto_login22:18
pavlosenabled default_user user and rebooting now22:19
pavlosperfect ! ty fsmithred Syllin22:20
fsmithredyw22:20

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