freenode/#devuan/ Saturday, 2019-08-31

fsmithred4.14 is in ceres, not in beowulf.00:25
tocsaOh boy00:28
tocsaI don't know how I got into ceres, I didn't want to go that steep...00:28
tocsaapt update:00:29
tocsaIgn:1 stable InRelease00:29
tocsaGet:2 stable InRelease [3,182 B]00:29
tocsaHit:3 stable InRelease00:29
tocsaHit:4 stable InRelease00:29
tocsaHit:5 disco InRelease00:29
tocsaGet:6 stable Release [943 B]00:29
tocsaGet:8 stable Release.gpg [819 B]00:29
tocsaHit:9 cosmic InRelease00:29
tocsaGet:10 stable/main amd64 Packages [138 kB]00:29
tocsaHit:11 stretch InRelease00:29
tocsaHit:7 jessie InRelease00:29
tocsaHit:12 beowulf InRelease00:29
tocsaGet:13 beowulf-updates InRelease [25.6 kB]00:29
tocsaGet:14 stable/main amd64 Packages [1,110 B]00:29
tocsaGet:16 beowulf-security InRelease [25.6 kB]00:29
tocsaGet:15 ceres InRelease [21.8 kB]00:29
tocsaGet:17 ceres/contrib Sources [48.5 kB]00:29
tocsaGet:18 ceres/main Sources [8,209 kB]00:29
tocsaGet:19 ceres/non-free Sources [91.0 kB]00:29
EvilhamThats a bunch of repos00:30
EvilhamAlso there are pastes, which are better suited than so many lines of output00:30
fsmithredyeah, I was so stunned by the magnitude of the list, I didn't get to warn him00:31 < this is never a good sign01:06
targzskyp€, micro$oft and googl€... :-/01:08
gnarfacehe probably thought he's banned permanently and doesn't really know why01:24
gnarfacethat is a bit sad01:25
fsmithreddon't they get a message?01:25
gnarfaceisn't it just "Spam is off topic on freenode." ?01:25
fsmithredoh, maybe01:25
Unit193gnarface: Huh, very interesting find.01:30
Unit193fsmithred: Yes, he should have gotten PM'd before Sigyn took a kill.  Also if he connected while the kline was in place, it usually has some more details.01:31
fsmithredwell, I un-klined him right away01:33
gnarfacenot everyone pays that close attention before taking it personally01:33
gnarfacei'd been using IRC for a good 10 years and i still took 2 weeks to notice that it wasn't personal, the first time i got auto-kicked for pasting too much01:34
gnarfaceseems like maybe it would be worthwhile to make the bot capable of only issuing a warning for first-time offenders01:35
Unit193One can set up Limnoria with ChanTracker to mute people that paste like that, then unmute after a minute (optionally issuing a message via PM too.)01:35
gnarfacethat wouldn't be a bad idea01:36
fsmithredthat sounds good. If it's a real person, someone can fix it, if it's a bot, they can go away01:36
gnarfacethe current setup is designed for a situation where everyone is assumed to be an aggrivated spammer01:37
fsmithredit got pretty bad in here before that01:37
gnarfacei remember01:38
Unit193gnarface: As noted, Sigyn *does* PM the user before taking action.01:38
gnarfacethe great war between the russian spam bots and the FBI's DDOS department :-p01:38
fsmithredFBI wants to shut us down?01:38
gnarfacei think they just have some operatives that like to show the "bad guys" who is really "bad" and they tend to behave unprofessionally when they know they can get away with it01:39
gnarfacethey just wanted to shut down the spam bots, but they didn't care if all of freenode was in the line of fire01:39
fsmithredis that what happened a day or two ago?01:40
gnarfacethat's my working hypothesis anyway.  that's how it's going into the screenplay unless i get better testimony.01:40
fsmithredand maybe last week, too01:40
gnarfaceoh, i dunno about recently. i'm talking about the huge wave of spamming a few months back01:40
gnarfacethere was another one like it a few years earlier01:40
fsmithredeveryone got booted recently. Or it looked like that to me, and I got booted.01:41
gnarfacea day ago as in about this time yesterday, or a couple hours later?01:41
fsmithredall those 1337 haxors in the govt should work on not losing data01:41
gnarfacelets take this to PM, this is offtopic01:41
fsmithredgood idea01:42
_abc_Hi. I see updates in irssi which goes beyond what's in ascii, ascii has 1.0.7 and irssi is at 1.0.8 1.1.3 and 1.2.3 now. Is there a way to enable a repo in ascii which allows access to these?11:25
gnarfacecheck for it in backports11:26
_abc_I have: deb ascii-backports main contrib non-free :: in sources. If it's in backports then it should pick it up, no? gnarface ?11:27
_abc_aptitude shows:11:28
gnarfaceno, you have to also add "-t ascii-backports" i think11:28
_abc_i  1.0.7-1~deb9ua11:28
gnarfacefor apt-get it is -t, for aptitude i don't know11:28
gnarfacecheck the man page11:28
_abc_p 1.2.0-2~bpo9+111:28
_abc_I can't select the 2nd. What is "p"?11:29
gnarfaceand you will have to of course run "apt-get update" before changes to the sources.list are recognized11:29
gnarfacei don't know what p means11:29
gnarfacebut bpo is the backports11:29
_abc_I did not change the sources, it was there before.11:29
_abc_Is it "unsafe" to grab the source from irssi and compile it and use that?11:32
_abc_I mean exit the dpkg package system for irssi and use the upstream source11:33
Atari-FroschHi. After a while of quiet reading here I just try to migrate my notebook from Debian Jessie zu Devuan Jessie by this manual: – but get some 404 from the package server.13:06
Atari-FroschIs that manual outdated?13:06
Atari-FroschOr should I migrate directly to ASCII?13:06
debdogshould™ work. you could try instead13:12
Atari-Froschdebdog: I will, thank you.13:13
Atari-Frosch(„should work“, shortest computer joke ever ;-))13:13
debdogwait, a 404 means the server is responding but some things on the server ain't there, right?13:14
Atari-FroschYes, the /main/binary-amd64/Packages and /main/binary-i386/Packages from jessie-updates and jessie-backports. From and
fsmithredAtari-Frosch, jessie-backports and jessie-updates no longer exist. Remove them from sources.list13:19
Atari-Froschfsmithred: Ah, I see! Thank you. Then the manual IS outdated. :-)13:20
fsmithredjessie is old-oldstable13:20
Atari-Froschfsmithred: The idea was to change from Debian Jessie to Devuan Jessie first, then upgrade to ASCII.13:21
fsmithredthat should work13:21
Atari-FroschOK. Then I'll start the upgrade now.13:21
fsmithredwhat desktop do you have?13:22
fsmithredif it's gnome, you'll need to remove some stuff13:22
Atari-FroschVery old fashioned: none, just icewm. :-)13:22
fsmithredcool, no problem there13:22
fsmithredand no pun intended13:23
Atari-FroschUsing icewm and editor joe since I started with Linux, back in 1997 ;-)13:23
fsmithredOh yeah, joe. I forgot about that one.13:25
XenguyJoe's Own Editor ?13:41
debdogyah :)13:41
XenguySimilar to Wordstar IIRC, but not sure anymore13:41
XenguyI think Wordstar may have been the first wordprocessor I ever used, but I digress.13:42
debdogdon't think it's similar13:43
XenguyYeah, I could easily be wrong about that13:43
Atari-FroschYes, very similar to Wordstar, that was my reason that time to start with that editor. I came from an editor on Atari TT that was – Wordstar compatible, so joe was my first choice.13:44
XenguyAha, my brain cells aren't complete mush yet then ; -)13:45
Atari-FroschHm. Enigmail was removed. :-(13:46
Atari-FroschEverything else seems to work.13:46
fsmithredyeah, I think enigmail is back again in ascii13:46
Atari-FroschA, nice to know.13:46
fsmithred(still using jessie here)13:46
Atari-FroschI use that notebook only when I'm somewhere else, but I still would like to be able to read my encrypted e-mails, too. ;-)13:47
Atari-FroschAt home I have my desktop computer.13:47
Atari-FroschStill on Debian Jessie, but it will be the next candidate.13:47
Atari-FroschAnd then a virtual server I manage for a registered society.13:48
Atari-FroschOK, next step: From Jessie to ASCII.13:50
Atari-FroschSame as in Debian, just change the sources.list and apt-get upgrade until everything is back again?13:50
* debdog just did an aptitude dist-upgrade, others use a more complex chain13:51
debdog*did just13:52
fsmithredyeah, you can do it in one step or two13:52
Atari-Froschdist-upgrade … didn't use it since, I don't know, Etch? Because it failed somehow and was later warned again and again to use dist-upgrade.13:52
fsmithredI think your overall package selection has more influence on how well the upgrade goes13:53
fsmithredupgrade only updates installed packges, dist-upgrade will install new packages13:53
fsmithredand when going from one release to the next, there will be new packages13:53
fsmithredand then do an autoremove when you're done, and that will get rid of the old, obsolete packages that are hanging around13:55
Atari-FroschOK. Let's find out …13:56
fsmithredyou might need to install the new kernel specifically13:56
fsmithredor you might get it automatically.13:57
Atari-Froschascii installs systemd-shim??? (removed without dependencies, but WHY?)14:38
hoglet_systemd-shim was not installed for me when I just now migrated from debian to devuan. Did you do a fresh install or migration?14:49
hoglet_Then it was a leftover from eralier install14:50
Atari-FroschThe former install was systemd-free as far as possible.14:50
Atari-FroschOK, perhaps.14:50
hoglet_Under post migration task: systemd components should now be removed from the system.14:50
hoglet_root@devuan:~# apt-get purge systemd-shim14:50
Atari-FroschI hope I got them all. ;-) systemd-shim and libsystemd0 were left and are now removed without dependency problems.14:51
hoglet_I had purged systemd before as I had problems with it.14:52
Atari-FroschNow I'm not sure about the kernel. apt search just shows me a 2.6.32, two 3.16.51, and a
Atari-FroschIt also shows me the sources of a 4.9 kernel. Well, I could build it myself, but actually don't want to ;-)14:53
hoglet_After restart: 4.9.0-9-amd6414:54
Atari-FroschOK … just found out that joe does not work correctly anymore. Grmpf.14:55
hoglet_Maybe an old config file that is not compatible with the new version. Joe works fine for after a fresh install of the package14:57
hoglet_my ejabberd server does not work though :(14:57
Atari-FroschYes, I let it use the old config file because I had made some changes. Seems that was not a good idea.14:58
Atari-FroschFortunately I have also nano at hand ;-)14:58
Burekthat's what she said15:08
sasquatchjoe is nice... but I prefered the jmacs flavour...15:12
sasquatchjstar is the one mimicking wordstar15:12
sasquatchsometimes i still think we™ should start disassembling original wordstar4 and make a *nixy port15:13
sasquatchAtari-Frosch: rennt's?15:14
Atari-Froschsasquatch: Bin noch am etappenweisen Updaten auf ASCII. Weiß ich also erst danach ;-)15:14
sasquatch's gibt auch #devuan-de aber mit zu wenig nasen dort... die kritische masse an know how ist da oft noch nicht erreicht, wenns fragen gibt... (back to anglese now)15:16
sasquatchicewm and joe... that sounds like my end-90ers... :-)15:17
sasquatchwoody was great15:18
Atari-FroschI started with potato ;-)15:18
Atari-FroschArghs. Now after the next upgrade wave I cannot connect to the internet anymore. ping in the local network is working.15:19
Atari-Froschping to the router also works. But that's it.15:19
sasquatchping works -> the net is up15:20
sasquatchmaybe just the default route is missing15:20
sasquatchor DNs hiccups15:20
sasquatchI had one such upgrade where net-tools flew away... but I got the missing packages with an other system and usb flash15:22
Atari-Froschdefault route is there.15:23
Atari-Froschping to an external IP gives me: network unreachable. m(15:23
Atari-FroschNot funny.15:24
sasquatchdifferent interface for local and others?15:25
sasquatch"ping in the local network is working." -> packets can get outside and answers come back15:26
Atari-Froschyes, there is an OpenVPN. You think I should stop it?15:26
sasquatchI've never used OpenVpn15:26
Atari-FroschI see.15:26
sasquatchTINC for a while...15:27
Atari-FroschYeah, that was it. The OpenVPN was in the way somehow. Stopped, corrected route, now the notebook is back online. :-)15:28
Atari-FroschActually that should not happen …15:28
Atari-Frosch(but who asks me …)15:28
sasquatchupgrade or dist-upgrade?15:31
Atari-FroschI don't trust dist-upgrade.15:31
sasquatchupgrade alone leaves many things untouched15:32
sasquatchbut 1st one should know which packages are essential to the setup15:33
sasquatchmore 12648430!!!15:34
sasquatchprint it in hex!15:35
sasquatchprintf '%x\n' 1264843015:35
onefangA unixy port of Wordstar?  I made a start on a generic one that includes joe / wordstar.
fsmithredAtari-Frosch, did you find the 4.9 kernel? What's in your sources.list? (use paste.debian or other service, don't post it here.)16:13
fsmithredand sources.list.d/ also.16:13
Atari-FroschI'm still in the upgrade process, there's a lot of stuff.16:13
Atari-FroschMy sources.list just contains the four links to as stated in the manual.16:14
fsmithredif you install linux-image-amd64 (or -686) you will always get the latest kernel for your suite.16:17
Atari-FroschOK, I see.16:20
Atari-FroschSeems I made a mistake. X doesn't start anymore. Well. If all else fails, I will have to forget the last few hours and make a completely new installation …17:13
fsmithredAtari-Frosch, if you have no display manager, you need to do one of two things17:14
fsmithred1. install elogind  or 2. install xserver-xorg-legacy and edit Xwrapper.config17:15
fsmithredsee the release notes:
Atari-FroschI have an error message several times saying failed to execute /lib/udev/usb-modeswitch /lib/udev/modeswitch --vendor 0x12d1 --product 0x1446 --type option-zerocd: No such file or directory. I don't know whether that has to do with the startup problems of X.17:17
Atari-Froschok *click*17:17
Atari-FroschAh, I see. I removed elogind after I got the impression that this is a systemd thing only.17:20
sasquatchi saw modeswitch only wirh USB UMTS modems...17:21
sasquatchso i vote:   [X] ... not X related17:21
fsmithredyou can also replace libsystemd0 with libelogind0 if it didn't already happen17:23
Atari-FroschAfter installation of elogind libelogind0, no change :-/ Found to fatal error messages from Xorg, saying „modeset(0): drmSetMaster failed: Permission denied“ and „AddScreen/ScreenInit: failed for driver 0“17:27
fsmithredmaybe reboot? (/me ducks)17:32
fsmithredhm, that didn't work17:32
Atari-FroschJust installed, no change. I don't think it has to do with the login process, it seems it's missing the display.17:32
Atari-Froschgrrr ;-)17:32
fsmithredyou could try adding 'nomodeset' to the boot line.17:36
fsmithredpossibly you need firmware-amd-graphics17:36
fsmithredI have to go outside for a little while17:36
Atari-Froschok, thank you17:37
Atari-FroschBut firmware-amd-graphics doesn't sound right for a Thinkpad which has an Intel chipset.17:38
fsmithredpoint taken17:38
fsmithredbbl, good luck17:39
Atari-FroschOh! X is up :-D17:39
furrywolfyou see some weird things with laptops switching between intel and amd/nvidia cards...  and this laptop is all intel except the amd video...17:40
Atari-FroschNot in this one, at least that's what lspci tells me. (Thinkpad R61)17:42
Atari-FroschSo it seems, with your help I got a running Devuan ASCII on my good ol' Thinkpad :-D17:53
Atari-Froschjoe is also fixed, it really needed the newer configuration files.17:54
sasquatchI had problems with kernel 4.0.something on intel graphics20:12
sasquatchor what did ascii have?20:12
sasquatchthe same in the related debian20:12
sasquatcha newer kernel from backports helped20:13
sasquatch4.9.something was it20:13
sasquatchT510 with intel graphics20:13
Atari-FroschASCII came with 4.9, and after re-installing the elogind stuff, everything works well. :-)20:21
avboxI upgraded manually to beowulf, worked well, but now I can't download any packages, it says ../beowulf/InRelase is not valide yet ... wait for about 2d... Is this normal?20:43
sasquatchuse apt20:48
sasquatchoh.. no... that was the testing->stable switch stuff20:49
sasquatch4get it20:49
sasquatchinternal clock problemß20:50
avboxsorry for my question, found out that inRelase message comes when date is not correct. But about relaese, is there already an "official" date for beowulf?20:51
sasquatchI've no idea...20:52
sasquatchjust stay ommmmmmptimistic...
sasquatchI'm running a beowulf cubietruck 24hrs/day and it behaves well20:54
sasquatchok... xcept for kernel updates... they are worth a reboot20:54
avboxOn some machines with beowulf I get segmentation fault AH00052 with apache2 but not on all. Any idea?20:55
sasquatchno idea. :-(20:56
fsmithredno official release date for beowulf yet21:18
avboxDoes devuan have something like a bug list so everybody could help to test things and helping it fixing?21:20
fsmithredavbox, you can look around at bugs.devuan.org21:25
fsmithredreporting stuff here first is a good idea21:25
fsmithredbefore creating a bug report, I mean. Not necessarily before looking to see if there's one already.21:26
fsmithredsometimes things get fixed within minutes of reporting here. (and sometimes not)21:27

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