freenode/#devuan/ Saturday, 2019-12-28

bpmedleyI'm not seeing a script that cleans /var/tmp.  Is there one?  Does /var/tmp persist forever?00:05
yetiI think /tmp shall be cleaned on reboots, /var/tmp not00:06
GyrosGeier/var/tmp was traditionally cleared00:07
GyrosGeierthe main distinction to /tmp is that it's not expected to be cleared during operation00:07
bpmedleyyeti , GyrosGeier : Thanks.  I see /tmp cleansing in /lib/init/  I haven't see anything for /var/tmp on boot or otherwisde.00:08
GyrosGeieryes, systemd dropped that00:08
GyrosGeiersysv-rc cleared /tmp /var/tmp and /var/run00:09
bpmedleyGyrosGeier : Perchance do you know which script clears /var/tmp?00:11
* GyrosGeier checks00:12
GyrosGeierseems that I misremembered00:14
GyrosGeier/etc/rcS.d/    # Clean /tmp, /var/lock, /var/run00:14
bpmedleyThanks for looking!!00:15
GyrosGeier/var/tmp was not used widely, it seems00:15
yetimy experience contradicts00:20
yetitemp files in /var/tmp shall survive reboots00:21
yetimaybe kids do it different today00:21
bpmedleyyeti : Agreed, however, is there anything that deletes the files in /var/tmp after 30 days or so?00:21
yetimay be some software tales care of their own files there00:22
yetibut I was used to putting e.g. ccache dirs into there because they survived reboots00:22
yetivi's recover files make less sense there too if lost after reboot00:23
yetimaybe dir names should show the intended use better...00:25
bpmedleyyeti : That may be true.  Perhaps /var/tmp has morphed into a persistent storage location..00:26
yeti/tmp often was on a small boot partition classically00:27
yetior even a ramdisk00:27
yetiwith /usr optionally on a bigger FS, /usr/tmp was common until they invented /var to allow a readonly /usr00:28
Wonkahave a look at /etc/default/tmpfs00:28
Wonkawith RAMTMP=yes you can still set /tmp to be a tmpfs00:28
frabbitrrq: i will try that00:50
frabbitrrq: it does nothing =(00:53
frabbitalso it is that i have this low resolution from boot on00:55
frabbitmy tty running all in this i dunno 1024x7something00:55
rrqdid you try with adding the missing modeline before using it? I think it's onw xrandr --newmode, and one xrandr --addmode01:08
frabbitmissing modeline?01:17
frabbitrrq: why do u think something is missing?01:18
rrqbecause it didn't show up in the log (that first log)01:19
rrqbut let me caveat that I'm far from and X pert01:22
rrq -d +ex01:22
fsmithredfrabbit, make sure the video cable is plugged in all the way. I get only low res on the display if the plug is falling out.01:36
frabbitrrq: ok01:36
frabbitfsmithred: yes it is. i use a kvm, i asked myself if eventually thats the reason...01:37
fsmithredI hope you did more than ask01:37
frabbitbut "falling out" is nearly impossible X)01:38
frabbitwith vga01:38
fsmithredI don't screw them in very tight01:38
frabbitfsmithred: i did not tried till now, cause i only thought of this a few minutes ago, also... this is a mess01:38
frabbitfsmithred: i do01:39
frabbitcause thats what the screws 4 =)01:39
fsmithredsome of mine don't work anymore01:39
fsmithrednot on the monitor end, but on the computer end01:39
frabbitfsmithred: u mean a port01:39
frabbitah.. thats bad...01:40
fsmithredloose nuts01:40
fsmithredas long as I don't trip over the wires, it's usually ok01:40
frabbitthe possibylity to change the screws would be cool01:40
frabbitnone of my cables 4 computing are on the floor01:41
frabbitthey are to important.. o001:42
frabbitok ill try direct vga conection.. but the t61 doesnt have a problem with running xrandr in .xinitrc while im using a kvm... so im not very optimistic...01:43
frabbitnope doesnt work too, as i thought...01:45
frabbitbut hey fsmithred if u have a thinkpad, how about using a docking station? i never use the ports on my laptop01:46
MinceRi gave up on usb-c docking stations recently01:47
buZzi got a dock for my x23001:47
buZzbut plonking it in/out is too much hassle01:48
MinceRregularly the damn thing just decides that it will no longer send signal to at least one monitor connected via usb-c and freezes for like 10s every time it tries to01:48
MinceRit does this even on boot firmware screens01:48
MinceRi thought it was just the 2 docks i tried, but it does the same on a usb-c/dp adapter01:48
fsmithredgot a thinkpad, but no docking station01:48
frabbitbuZz: cool =)01:48
frabbitfsmithred: they are cheap01:49
buZzfrabbit: i actually want to mod my x23001:49
fsmithredwhat's it do?01:49
buZzthen i cant use the dock anymore, but i'll have a 2k resolution screen01:49
frabbitbuZz: what mod do u do?01:49
fsmithred11.5 inches??01:49
MinceRi looked at docks using the real docking port, but either lenovo won't say how many displays it can drive and in what configuration, or it says it can't drive 2 displays at fullhd01:49
frabbitfsmithred: wich thinkpad u got?01:50
buZzfrabbit: hmmm01:50
buZzinternet recommends
fsmithredT420 right now01:51
buZzbut its 1080p only, it seems01:51
fsmithredborrowed and kinda beat up, but it works01:51
buZzthe other mod is by 51nb , it seems?01:52
buZznot sure01:52
frabbitfsmithred: i think u can use the advanced mini dock, just like me then01:53
frabbitbuZz: wahaaa... google capture...01:54
frabbitthat site u linked01:55
buZzoh sure, who doesnt block analytics themselves? :P01:55
frabbitbuZz: im interested in a thnkpad mod too, but 4 the t61, so it can run a quadcore cpu XD01:56
frabbitbut thats a heavy hardware hack and maybe to geeky 4 me01:56
buZz51nb i think made a custom motherboard01:56
buZzfor t61? not sure01:56
frabbityes u need to soldering and stuf...01:57
buZzyou dont need to solder i think? just a replacement motherboard01:57
buZzsupports up to 32GB ram, nice01:58
frabbitwow cool =D01:58
MinceRdo any of them come without uefi and intel me?01:58
frabbitno for t61 u need to soldering01:58
frabbitMinceR: how could they?01:59
buZzMinceR: its got a 5th gen i7 , they require me01:59
frabbitonly the t60 has no IntelME01:59
frabbitand older ones...01:59
MinceRi have an X60s :>01:59
frabbitMinceR: hm im not sure 4 that...01:59
* frabbit looks at coreboot website01:59
frabbitoh yeah its the same =)02:00
frabbitbuZz: here it is in english:
buZzhaha yeah02:06
buZzthats a bit too much for me :P02:07
MinceRthat's what she said.02:07
frabbitbuZz: 4me202:08
frabbitbut a very cool mod02:08
frabbit_someone yesterday said that next year this channel will be in german.. was that a joke?02:34
onefangThey said it to me, it was a joke.02:35
frabbitok =D02:36
MinceRfrabbit: Nein!02:40
MinceRwait, it isn't the next year yet02:40
buZzooo debian vote ended on > B: Systemd but we support exploring alternatives03:04
buZzguess devuans future is safe03:04
JackFrostThat does leave room for maintainers to rm -rf debian/*.init though.03:05
MinceRi don't think that makes devuan safe, as long as it depends on deadian03:06
furrywolfnot bad.  better than systemd-only, at least.  I still wanted a "kill it with fire" option.03:06
golinux(MinceR scores another hit)03:07
golinuxSend it to Elon Musk for expulsion from earth!03:07
tuxd3vello huys :)03:09
tuxd3vthe package 'desktop-base' installs xfce ?03:09
fsmithredtuxd3v, it should not. I'll be back in 5 min.03:13
tuxd3vfsmithred, thanks!03:15
tuxd3vdoes it include the slim theme for devuan, or that come with another package..?03:15
tuxd3vI don't find the theme  package for slim..03:15
tuxd3vapt-file search /usr/share/slim/themes/desktop-slim-theme03:15
tuxd3vthe gorgeous slim devuan theme :)03:16
tuxd3vho.. seems that it comes with slim package already :)03:17
prfilserapt install sdl-ball yields03:18
prfilserNot Found [IP: 80]03:18
prfilseranyone else see this?03:18
fsmithredtuxd3v, are you installing ascii or beowulf?03:18
tuxd3vI am trying beowulf03:18
tuxd3vbut its for armhf03:18
tuxd3vI trying to build a desktop image :)03:19
fsmithredwhat desktop do you want? Oh, armhf03:19
tuxd3vfluxbox, due to memory contraints03:19
fsmithredyours or the computer?03:19
tuxd3vthe computer03:19
fsmithredfluxbox is good03:20
tuxd3vfor armhf that board comes with a lot less memory03:20
fsmithredon a recent install I got asked if I wanted slim or lightdm03:21
tuxd3vI hope it works well with slim login manager03:21
fsmithredslim works ok03:21
tuxd3vbecause slim, is awesome03:21
tuxd3vand with the devuan theme, marvelous!03:21
fsmithredI've used it with openbox in ascii03:21
tuxd3vthanks, don't know If I have to execute any command inside its config, when login in, you now to 'startfluxbox'03:22
prfilserdevuan beowulf is running nicely on nvidia jetson nano here03:22
tuxd3vprobably 'exec startfluxbox'03:22
fsmithredtuxd3v, check slim.conf03:23
tuxd3vprfilser, can you make a image and put it in :
fsmithredbut only if you need to. It might just work.03:23
tuxd3vfsmithred, thanks a lot I will try with the default config first03:24
prfilsertuxd3v: i converted nvidia's ubuntu image to devuan live, and there are some problems i can't resolve yet03:26
prfilserif someone wants a not-fully-working image, no problem03:26
tuxd3vI hope that you succeed in bring a Image to Devuan ARMBuilds :)03:27
tuxd3vthat board is nice03:27
tuxd3vare you with mainline kernel or yet with nvidia one?03:27
prfilseri have tried to upgrade kernel but i keep getting nvidia's at boot03:27
tuxd3vhumm.. probably its Uboot fault, or extlinux fault I don't know if you see any menu at start03:28
prfilseri do not. i don't know uboot.03:28
tuxd3vcheck in your /boot03:28
tuxd3vfor a boot.scr file03:29
tuxd3vif its there you can change booting kernel on that file..03:29
prfilserthere is none03:29
tuxd3vbut is there any /boot/extlinux folder?03:29
prfilseryes, it contains extlinnux.conf03:29
tuxd3vthat file03:30
tuxd3vis were you need to change the default kernel that will boot :)03:30
prfilserinitrd is a symlink to initrd.img-4.9.140-tegra03:30
tuxd3vyou can boot without a initrd03:31
tuxd3vif you compiled the kernel03:31
tuxd3vyou can add a new section03:31
prfilserok.  also there is only one "Image" in /boot.  and extlinux.conf points to /boot/Image03:31
tuxd3vwith your kernel03:31
tuxd3vbut you have any03:31
tuxd3vor vmlinuz03:32
prfilser19916656 Dec  7 13:24 vmlinuz-5.3.0-3-arm6403:32
tuxd3vin the new section you will copy from the one that exists03:32
prfilserand my own compiled 4.19.003:32
prfilsercan we pm, this might be too offtopic03:32
tuxd3vchange Image by  'vmlinuz-5.3.0-3-arm64'03:32
enycinterestingly, debian internally voted on  choice B17:39
enycIn short, backs that debian maintainers should accept reasonable patches for non-systemd-support and are committed to working with downstreams that make different choices about init from debian.17:42
yetioptimist alert!18:48
frabbithi. mz external monitor onlz turns on when booting process is nearly done. but i want output before (best from grub menu on)19:02
divansantanaHi All. Strange question from a mostly outsider, but I'm just wondering how "succesful" is devuan currently? Obviously it's behind in releases, but does it have a decent amount of interest/development? I do hope it is successful, I'm sure it is like swimming upstream.19:21
divansantanaHopefully other distribution and various efforts outside of devuan community also helps.19:22
DanielTheFoxhi there19:25
DanielTheFoxis there yet a way to upgrade Debian 10 (Buster) to Devuan?19:26
DanielTheFoxor should I somehow wait/downgrade?19:26
frabbitdivansantana: i think its more a niche product... sadly19:26
fsmithredDanielTheFox, yes, it's possible19:26
fsmithredhang on a sec19:26
DanielTheFoxI haven't found a doc about it yet19:27
DanielTheFoxat least not through google19:27
frabbitdivansantana: the most people want shiny, fancy, bloatware and do not care about design principles or philosophy...19:27
DanielTheFoxfrabbit: I was one of them19:27
DanielTheFoxuntil my eyes were open19:27
DanielTheFoxwhich appears to have happened just about half an hour ago19:27
frabbitDanielTheFox: lol sounds religious XD19:27
DanielTheFoxhence why I'm asking here19:27
DanielTheFoxfrabbit: religion is about ideas, too19:28
DanielTheFoxnot that different from a psycological point of view19:28
frabbitDanielTheFox: very different...19:28
fsmithredUse nixer's method (don't reboot when you think you should)19:28
DanielTheFoxfsmithred: I have to mention I use lightdm + lxde19:28
DanielTheFoxI use ifupdown19:28
DanielTheFoxbut I haven't removed networkmanager (it is hanging around there, doing nothing)19:29
fsmithredyeah, ok. I only tested with standard system utilities.19:29
frabbitisnt it always a better idea to do a fresh new install?19:29
DanielTheFoxoh, ok19:29
fsmithredany desktop has the potential to give you trouble in a migration19:29
DanielTheFoxfrabbit: but I don't want to lose my data, quite all I want to do is to switch to a pure sysV (or openrc) system19:29
DanielTheFoxfsmithred: no problem, then19:30
DanielTheFoxI can lose the GUI19:30
DanielTheFoxjust not the entire system19:30
frabbitDanielTheFox: i did that too first time (from Jessie there)19:30
fsmithredyou fairly competent with apt, apt-get and aptitude?19:30
frabbitDanielTheFox: wish u success19:30
fsmithredsome of the migrations I tried required using all three at different times, but that was before I tried it nixer's way.19:31
DanielTheFoxfsmithred: nothing beyond apt update, apt upgrade, apt install, apt remove19:31
fsmithredback up your data!19:31
golinuxThat's for stretch to ascii but is probably mostly the same.  Official documentation for Beowulf is not available yet.19:31
DanielTheFoxglad my HDD is partitioned :)19:31
frabbitDanielTheFox: =)19:31
fsmithredgolinux, I've been directing people to nixer's description. It's non-intuitive for anyone who's done a dist-upgrade.19:32
fsmithredand it works19:32
DanielTheFoxnixer is the first one, apparently19:32
DanielTheFoxoh, or the one I've been redirected to, lol19:33
fsmithredor my summary on the second or third page19:34
fsmithredbiab. need to play with firewood.19:37
DanielTheFoxwhen I want to apt install sysvinit-core, apt complains about policykit-1 depending on libpam-systemd but not going to be "installed"19:45
fsmithredDanielTheFox, installing sysvinit-core is the first thing you're doing in buster?20:16
DanielTheFoxfsmithred: nah20:18
DanielTheFoxoh, and I solved that20:18
fsmithredoh, good. What did you do?20:18
DanielTheFoxby forcing apt NOT to install packages on recommends/suggests20:18
fsmithredyeah, that frequently helps20:18
DanielTheFoxand NOT to complain about removing packages that way20:18
DanielTheFoxbut now20:18
DanielTheFoxI have altered the sources.list20:18
DanielTheFoxI did apt update successfully20:19
fsmithred- boot buster, install sysvinit-core20:19
fsmithred- download and install devuan-keyring20:19
fsmithred- change sources to devuan, update, upgrade20:19
DanielTheFoxbut when I want to do apt upgrade, it complains about systemd conflicting with consolekit and libpam-ck-connector20:19
DanielTheFoxfsmithred: oh, yes, I rebooted20:19
DanielTheFoxbefore doing the big stuff20:19
fsmithredwell, then I don't know what's going to happen20:20
DanielTheFoxit's not the /first/ thing I ever do in my entire life with Buster20:20
fsmithredrest of my synopsis is:20:20
fsmithred- (optional) install eudev and let it fail. This might save some time on the first reboot.20:20
fsmithred- reboot and install eudev, remove or purge systemd if it doesn't get removed automatically. (possibly libnss-systemd also)20:20
fsmithredyeah, I figured you've been using buster. I mean first step of the upgrade would be to install sysvinit-core before changing sources.list.20:21
u1f320Hi. Is it possible to upgrade from Debian to Devuan 2.1 ? I've a Debian in a virtualbox. I'm seeing this 2016 video here:
u1f320which shows upgrading from Wheezy/Jessie to Devuan (as it was in 2016)20:29
u1f320so, was wondering if those steps should still work?20:30
u1f320I guess I'll try, after all, I've got Snapshot ability20:32
frabbitdo i need change /boot/grub.cfg 4 having another resolution on tty?20:41
u1f320fsmithred, cheers! so uhm, uan=1 ? dev1 :)20:45
u1f320lol: "We can now remove systemd without any complaints."20:49
u1f320seems stuck(after reboot) at: [....] Starting system message bus: dbus20:52
u1f320I'm on Debian "buster"20:52
u1f320steps from here
u1f320oh nvm, it eventually moved on...20:53
u1f320hmm no mouse cursor visible or any movement(other than seeing wallpaper) after logged in with user and password20:54
u1f320the console user/pass login takes about 10 seconds to get to prompt20:56
u1f320now stuck at Processing triggers for dbus (1.12.16-1) ...  (during the systemd purge)21:02
u1f320there's no CPU usage, seems like a deadlock21:04
frabbitu1f320: better do a fresh new install ;)21:05
u1f320I will , but I just wanted to see this working:)21:05
u1f320I killed this and it unlocked: dbus-send --print-reply --system --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.DBus / org.freedesktop.DBus.ReloadConfig21:06
u1f320It relocked again so I killed this: /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system21:06
u1f320but got: Failed to open connection to "system" message bus: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.21:07
u1f320reruning $ sudo apt-get purge systemd   did nothing21:07
u1f320which makes me wonder, did the previous transaction succeed even though it died after that second "Processing triggers for dbus (1.12.16-1) ..." ?21:08
u1f320what about the other triggers? guess they weren't as important to run for the second time21:09
u1f320holy moly there are so many IPs for deb.devuan.org21:10
u1f320well this step failed "Update the package indexes so we can install the Devuan archive keyring."21:11
u1f320the next failed too: # apt-get install devuan-keyring --allow-unauthenticated21:11
u1f320E: Unable to locate package devuan-keyring21:11
u1f320Guess I can't migrate from Debian buster to Devuan ascii 2.121:11
u1f320is Devuan ascii 2.1 using the same packages as Debian buster, for example for 'file'21:16
u1f320just want to check to see if it's current enough and has some CVE fixed21:16
gnarfaceascii is older, i think you want to try to migrate buster to beowulf instead.  then most the packages should match21:17
u1f320gnarface, but can't find beowulf in  ? where would it be?21:20
u1f320Is there a web interface where I can browse for the 'file' package?21:21
gnarfacethere is probably no beowulf installer yet, if that's what you're looking for...21:22
u1f320thank you21:23
gnarfaceno problem21:23
mrbitternessIs updating to beowulf not a pain anymore?21:23
tuxd3von arm it seems ok21:24
fsmithredu1f320, you can't go from buster to 2.121:24
gnarfacei've only tried it headless, but it worked for me21:24
fsmithredthat would be a downgrade21:24
u1f320fsmithred, oh good :)21:24
gnarfaceascii-beowulf arm6421:24
gnarfacealso worked going to sid21:24
gnarfaceer, ceres i mean21:24
fsmithreddifferent instructions for going from buster to beowulf21:24
u1f320fsmithred, not yet available?21:25
gnarfacei picked up some issues between there though... ascii is definitely still more stable21:25
tuxd3vbut extlinux package is missing in armhf and I believe also im arm64 :S21:25
u1f320that web inteface only shows me some description text
u1f320now urls for sources, or build logs?21:26
fsmithredtuxd3v, do those arm devices use ext filesystems?21:26
fsmithredu1f320, that last link shows how to wget the keyring21:27
tuxd3valmost exclusively21:27
fsmithredoh, ok. Was thinking possibly syslinux would be there21:28
u1f320fsmithred, thanks, I noticed they mention  " 2) Manually download and  install devuan-keyring (wget, dpkg -i)."21:28
tuxd3vyou can boot witha vfat for boot, but majority for boot uses ext221:28
tuxd3vand ext4 for filesystem21:28
tuxd3vext4 for rootfs21:28
tuxd3vextlinux because its very small its a must to change between kernels21:29
fsmithredu1f320, note that those instructions tell you not to reboot until the end21:29
fsmithredextlinux is nice. Simple.21:29
u1f320good info, cheers21:29
tuxd3vand its there a syslinux( for fat and ntfs partitions...which no one uses ), but extlinux is not there :(21:29
tuxd3vfsmithred, yes very simpla and small :)21:29
gnarfacei have been using xfs21:30
gnarfaceit feels faster21:30
fsmithredlol, that's what they said about arch21:30
fsmithredI wish I could get my browser to feel faster21:31
frabbitfsmithred: use lynx =p21:31
fsmithredwas just thinking of that21:32
fsmithredlinks2 if you want the web to look like 199521:33
fsmithredTry it. It's very relaxing.21:34
frabbiti know links2 too but i like lynx21:34
frabbitand i like websites taht are not defective by design21:34
frabbitif a webside wnat me to enable javascript so i can read some text, then the dev of this site is an idiot and i wont visit this site anymore21:35
fsmithred(going downhill)21:36
frabbitfsmithred: =)21:36
frabbityes thats what js does with websites21:37
fsmithredwe're straying OT at high rate of speed21:37
frabbitor these huge images so u need to scroll two times or more to reach the beginning of the article...21:37
frabbitfsmithred: yeah...21:38
frabbitbut maybe not that much OT, i mean look systemd seems to be necessary to run several big os, same with js and the web ithink...21:39
frabbitso same philosophy here devuan stands 4 right? =)21:39
fsmithredwe have #debianfork for non-support conversation21:43
frabbiti see21:43
fsmithredmakes it easier to find stuff in the logs21:43
frabbit=) ok21:43
u1f320I see this but where can I see sources or build logs?
fsmithredsource code for that package would probably (maybe) be at salsa.debian.org21:45
fsmithredu1f320, what exactly are you trying to do?21:46
u1f320like this:  and   where I can see that this was applied: dpkg-source: info: applying cherry-pick.FILE5_37-67-g46a8443f.limit-the-number-of-elements-in-a-vector-found-by-oss-fuzz.patch21:46
fsmithredok, it looks like you found the right page.21:47
u1f320basically, I want to know how up to date Devuan keeps its packages, security wise, at least21:47
u1f320so it's using Debian stuff?21:48
fsmithredThat's not a package that we change21:48
u1f320ok, sounds good then21:48
fsmithredyeah, we merge debian and devuan repos and serve them as devuan21:48
fsmithredpackage that we modify will have +devuan in the version21:48
u1f320but the stable Devuan is ascii now? which means it's using  which is older than 5.3521:49
fsmithredascii = stretch21:49
fsmithredbeowulf = buster21:49
u1f320so if I want to have buster equivalency, I'd need to use Devuan testing?21:49
fsmithreduse the directions on the forum that I posted earlier21:50
fsmithrednixer's post (or my summary on the next page)21:50
u1f320for migrating you mean?21:51
fsmithredif you do it the way it was done in past releases, you will have trouble21:51
u1f320oh I'm definitely using them21:51
fsmithredbeowulf is very close to ready21:52
u1f320so when they say " 3) change apt sources from buster to beowulf."21:52
u1f320that means like s/buster/beowulf/ ?21:52
fsmithredum, no21:52
fsmithredyou have to change the whole URL21:52
fsmithreddeb beowulf main21:53
u1f320so like in this
u1f320but this one's 404-ing: deb beowulf-backports main21:54
fsmithredyeah, no beowulf-backports yet21:54
u1f320during "apt update"21:54
u1f320ok so that's normal, thanks21:55
fsmithredleave it commented for now21:55
fsmithredor forever21:55
u1f320yeah, that forum doesn't show the lines, so I got a lil worried :)21:56
fsmithredoh, good call. We'll have to add that when we turn it into official instructions21:57
u1f320well, it seems to have worked21:58
u1f320some epic delay for ssh-ing into it, must be the low kernel version lacking randomness in virtualbox, though pressing a key 5 times used to work in buster+systemd22:01
fsmithredoh that22:01
fsmithredinstalling haveged might help22:01
u1f320actually I'm still unable to get a ssh prompt22:01
u1f320looks like it's installed22:02
u1f320oh my bad, eth0 is not UP22:03
u1f320I skipped this because it was already so with "lo" # alter /etc/network/interfaces file to change enp0s3 to:22:03
u1f320i see that I was semi-wrong :) there's no dhcp line22:04
fsmithredyou can keep the enp0s3 if you add boot option: net.ifnames=122:05
u1f320all fixed. But there was no enp0s3, it's eth0 for me,  I guess maybe because I was using network manager before?22:05
u1f320I mean, the auto and iface lines had to be added22:06
u1f320there was only "auto lo" and its iface line22:06
fsmithredyeah, that's normal22:06
u1f320anyway fixed now, works ssh22:06
fsmithredyou should not put your interface in that file if you are using any network manager22:06
fsmithredthey might fight with each other22:07
u1f320I think I installed wicd as per migration steps from that dev122:07
fsmithredthat's the default22:07
u1f320that is replaced...22:07
fsmithredbut n-m is available22:07
u1f320n-m and wicd are only graphical?22:08
MinceRafaik both of those have some sort of non-gui frontend22:08
u1f320ah there's wicd-curses22:08
u1f320I guess since I haven't configured wicd, it didn't bring up my network22:09
u1f320I only removed n-m and installed wicd, as per (old)migration steps22:09
u1f320the boot menu is new, is it still grub?22:12
u1f320I switched back to lxqt but things seem broken22:13
u1f320there's no menu, and clicking "my computer" fails with "Operation not supported"22:14
u1f320I wonder if it was that "autoremove" command22:14
u1f320or maybe lxqt still depends on systemd stuff? no idea22:15
gnarfaceyou might just be missing some package22:15
u1f320Computer, Network, Trash  all fail with the same error, but "user" folder opens just fine22:16
gnarfacemaybe one of these:  apt-cache search ^lxqt22:16
gnarfaceor maybe just the one called "menu"22:16
fsmithredlxqt works in devuan22:16
u1f3200 upgraded, 129 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.22:16
u1f320I'm sure the autoremove command removed these!22:17
u1f320after all I was on xfce4, for the migration22:17
fsmithredfigure out what's missing and install it22:17
gnarfaceit is possible to have multiple window managers installed22:18
fsmithredthere may be library conflicts between xfce4 and lxqt22:18
fsmithredsome of the polkit stuff22:18
gnarfaceyou can use the alternatives system to change the default WM by setting it to x-window-manager22:18
gnarfaceman update-alternatives22:18
gnarfaceand not all the window managers work right with all the session managers i guess22:19
gnarfacedue to polkit stuff22:19
u1f320I mean, those "129 newly installed" were missing... more or less, since I did apt-get install lxqt xD  all good after reboot22:19
u1f320ok, not all good, but the menu bar is back; still not opening My Computer with "Operation not supported"- probably polkit stuff as you mentioned22:20
gnarfacei really don't know for sure22:21
gnarfacei don't use a session manager, and i'm using enlightenment for a window manager... and i deleted all those filesystem links because i hate them22:22
u1f320I did use this to switch to lxqt: sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager22:22
u1f320oh i see22:22
u1f320that why you said  x-window-manager22:22
u1f320There is only one alternative in link group x-window-manager (providing /usr/bin/x-window-manager): /usr/bin/xfwm422:22
gnarfacethat looks right, the update-alternatives command22:22
u1f320is enlightenment lightweight?22:22
fsmithredpaste output somewhere (not here) for: dpkg -l | egrep "consolekit|elogind|policykit|polkit|libpam"22:23
gnarfaceu1f320: by modern standards, i've found it to be lightweight but that's not to say it can't soak up ram to speed up22:23
gnarfaceu1f320: it will look like it takes a lot of ram but it won't really crowd anything22:24
u1f320ah, well, I'm running on a 2011 amd laptop, firefox is seconds slower than the snappy chromium, so I might feel it22:24
gnarfaceso i heard something weird in an arm channel22:24
gnarfacei heard zram will speed up firefox a lot if you're ram constrained22:25
gnarfacei haven't tested this wild theory myself22:25
gnarfacelike if you only have 2GB it is supposed to help a lot...22:25
u1f320ram is 16G though, it must be something else slowing it down22:25
u1f320maybe the fact that I've compiled it myself and without PGO, probably22:26
gnarfacedid you try disabling pocket, smooth scrolling, and hardware accellerated rendering?22:26
u1f320all disabled22:26
u1f320trying to find a paste site, any recommandations?22:27
fsmithredpaste.debian.   net?22:27
fsmithredanything that does not require javascript22:28
u1f320oh yeah, that's the spirit22:29
fsmithredlooks like you got the right ones22:33
u1f320I've toggled some shortcut displaying for Desktop and now the Trash icon is gone, even though it's still selected, maybe some kind of missing dir or permission is at hand22:34
u1f320now only Computer and Network icons are showing that Operation Not Supported error22:35
u1f320I'll temp-switch to the Debian snapshot to get more info..22:35
gnarfacedid you check the release notes about the polkit/consolekit stuff?22:36
fsmithredI'm going to boot up an lxqt live-iso and see what's there22:36
u1f320gnarface, oops :-"22:36
DanielTheFoxhrm, I appear to have devuanized my system22:36
DanielTheFoxalthough I have yet to find what did it destroy22:36
furrywolfyay, foxes!22:37
gnarfaceDanielTheFox: you might have issues with permissions, temperature sensors, and sleep/hibernate22:37
gnarface(also, general powermanagement usually works but sometimes widgets break)22:38
gnarfacepermissions is trivial if you know about them22:38
DanielTheFoxpermissions are easy-peasy22:39
DanielTheFoxbut, hrm22:39
DanielTheFoxGUI has never started automatically since I disabled lightdm (when I had systemd)22:39
DanielTheFoxI guess it's still the same22:39
DanielTheFoxlet's see what did I destroy (I used lxde)22:39
u1f320DanielTheFox, when I ran this, there was an "auto" option: sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager22:40
DanielTheFoxI intentionally disabled GUI autostart :>22:40
DanielTheFoxlet's see if I get the command correctly with sysV22:40
gnarfaceyou might get some sensor support back if you install and configure the lm-sensors package22:42
DanielTheFoxwell, I don't use such widgets, so I guess nothing happens there22:42
DanielTheFoxhowever, I'm apt autoremove -ing the system22:42
u1f320gnarface, where can I read those release notes for beowulf(?) ?22:42
DanielTheFoxapparently, 4 GB will be freed22:43
DanielTheFoxgnarface: uhh, btw22:43
u1f320gnarface, some apt command or website?22:43
DanielTheFoxwhat is ascii?22:43
DanielTheFoxI know the text format thingie22:43
gnarfaceu1f320: not sure, but the ascii release notes for that part may still be mostly relevant22:43
DanielTheFoxbut why did I need to change repositories to devuan ASCII?22:43
u1f320gnarface, I'll try to find those then, cheers22:43
u1f320yeah I found that confusing at first, ascii what22:43
DanielTheFoxheh, oak22:44
DanielTheFoxso I must still switch to Beowulf22:44
DanielTheFoxmaybe there's something broken in the downgrade?22:44
DanielTheFoxI had Debian Buster22:45
gnarfaceyes, if you downgraded, extra things may have gotten broken.  downgrading isn't actually supported in Debian either22:45
DanielTheFoxBeowulf is still "testing", right?22:46
DanielTheFoxbut I just hope nothing happens if I upgrade now, lol22:47
gnarfacecorrect, it's still testing22:47
u1f320gnarface, found it   no polkit mention?22:47
gnarfaceu1f320: sorry "policykit"22:47
u1f320oh i just found it lol22:47
DanielTheFoxgnarface: alternatively, I might remove /everything/ except the base system22:48
DanielTheFoxand install it again22:48
DanielTheFoxinstall everything again22:48
gnarfaceDanielTheFox: it might work22:48
DanielTheFoxthat is, leave Devuan as if I just had fresh-installed it22:48
DanielTheFoxgnarface: is there a way to automatize that?22:50
DanielTheFoxor it's easier to just dist-upgrade to Beowulf? (despite it being testing)22:50
DanielTheFoxit is a personal computer, not a production system22:50
brocashelmquestion: is there any quality difference between hdmi or dvi? what if i convert a dvi monitor to hdmi signal (my gpu has both hdmi and dvi)22:50
DanielTheFoxbrocashelm: you lose audio22:51
DanielTheFoxbut you may never have had audio if your monitor doesn't have speakers22:51
DanielTheFoxso in that case, it's mostly the same22:51
u1f320gnarface, now I know why fsmithred asked for that paste xD22:51
brocashelmi use my own speakers22:51
DanielTheFoxand HDMI is signal-compatible with DVI, so nothing prevents you from using a passive (electronicless) HDMI to DVI converter, HDMI was just designed with that in mind22:51
DanielTheFoxand, in that very case, it'll be literally the same22:52
brocashelmah, i see22:52
brocashelmmy gpu is limited to dvi, hmdi, and dp, but my two monitors only do hdmi or vga (ew)22:52
u1f320when I dblclick "My Computer" the command seems to be: "pcmanfm-qt computer:///"22:52
brocashelmone of each of those ports, by the way22:52
u1f320but only this one doesn't err: "pcmanfm-qt /home/user"22:53
gnarfacea note though - at equivalent resolutions, the monitors i have here have lower refresh ranges on HDMI than DVI... so i've found in one case DVI to be superior (not using the audio passthrough either022:53
brocashelmi haven't had any problems using this with xfce, but i do like having dual monitors22:53
brocashelminteresting. i'm using the exact same monitor models22:53
DanielTheFoxHDMI ports can output DVI signals22:54
DanielTheFoxI don't remember if HDMI monitors can receive DVI signals, I think they can tho22:54
DanielTheFoxHDMI in monitor (no audio) mode is basically the same22:54
gnarfaceit is common for there to be multiple inputs yea22:55
brocashelmdell p2212h22:55
DanielTheFoxHDMI TVs can receive audio in case you don't want to plug extra wires and you want to keep using the TV's speakers22:55
brocashelmusing two of these on the same pc22:55
gnarfacesometimes there's not speakers and it's just a audio jack22:55
gnarfacefor passthrough22:55
gnarfacelike a headphone jack22:55
brocashelmi do have an hdmi tv serving another desktop22:55
gnarfaceor line-out22:56
DanielTheFoxon Linux, however, the HDMI audio output could mean you need to manually select either audio card (the video card becomes an audio card too!)22:56
DanielTheFoxthe one in your mobo, or the video+audio card22:56
brocashelmi haven't had to do that with alsa, iirc22:56
DanielTheFoxif you use pulseaudio, nothing happens, it already does it for yo22:56
gnarfaceyes, that's true22:57
DanielTheFoxbut if you're anything like me, who hates pulseaudio's low performance on the command-line interface (I use tty mostly), then you have to contend with that, and gain some speed and less bugs in exchange22:57
brocashelmalsa works perfectly for me. i only had problems with pulse22:58
DanielTheFoxme too22:58
DanielTheFoxand most programs still use alsa without complaining22:58
brocashelmeven when switching sound outputs, very little to change22:59
DanielTheFoxI guess no one will phase it out, especially since Raspbian doesn't use pulseaudio despite being a modern and frequently-used distro22:59
brocashelmwhat i like to do is hook up my headphone jack to my receiver so i can hear sound out of my speakers22:59
DanielTheFoxoh well22:59
brocashelmindependent from hdmi/dvi connectivity23:00
brocashelmbut yeah, wanted to make sure if there was anything to keep in mind about dvi and hdmi. trying to make the best of my gpu23:00
u1f320I remember at least one TV/monitor that would postprocess HDMI input compared to DVI input, I guess it thought it's doing me a favor by enhancing colors and other stuff23:00
brocashelmsince there is still a displayport, i could look into a third instance of that monitor that converts dvi to dp23:00
DanielTheFoxyeah, but now you'll need more electronics23:01
DanielTheFoxa passive connector won't work anymore23:01
DanielTheFoxunless the GPU or the monitor include the electronics, and all you need is to adjust the pins (but that's unlikely)23:01
brocashelmmy gpu has one of each of those23:02
DanielTheFoxbrocashelm: can the GPU output to all those outputs at the same time?23:02
brocashelmdvi-d, hdmi, and dp23:02
DanielTheFoxmore monitors require significantly more video memory and may use more internal GPU RAM bandwidth, and if many screens are being used for gaming, it'll be more load for the GPU23:04
brocashelmthe model is radeon rx 46023:04
DanielTheFoxoh, btw23:04
DanielTheFoxdo you really do gaming on your Linux box?23:04
brocashelmnot on this one in particular, no23:05
brocashelmit's mostly for watching videos + productivity + web browsing23:05
brocashelmmuch of what i do gaming-wise is emulation23:05
u1f320How could I recompile a package with -DDEBUG -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -DQT_FORCE_ASSERTS  ? kind new to this apt stuff23:06
DanielTheFoxI have a fairly old machine, yet I do /some/ gaming there23:06
DanielTheFoxmostly emulation, PSX/NDS or below23:06
brocashelmyeah, my computers are all old (mid-2000s through early 2010s)23:06
DanielTheFoxmine is ~200723:06
brocashelmyeah, i actually have epsxe loaded on my emulation pc23:06
brocashelmheck, all but one of my machines are still in the core2 era23:06
DanielTheFoxLenovo ThinkCentre A52 8382, Pentium 4 @ 2.8 GHz, 1 GB DDR2 RAM23:07
brocashelmbut i've upgraded them to the quad cores (q9650)23:07
DanielTheFoxmine's worse, lol23:07
brocashelmmaxed their ram to 8 gb23:07
DanielTheFoxI want to buy an entire new (but used) computer in the Core 2 Quad or i3 era23:07
brocashelmoh wow haha23:07
brocashelmthe "best" one i have is an i5 357023:07
DanielTheFoxmy motherboard won't accept Core 2 Duo (unsupported by BIOS)23:07
DanielTheFoxbuuut I'm low in budget23:07
DanielTheFoxso that won't happen until much later, haha23:08
brocashelmall it tells me is it's not so much what your budget is, but what you can do with what you have23:08
brocashelmand gnu/linux is perfect IMO23:08
brocashelmi missed the boat for windows 8 and beyond23:08
DanielTheFoxyeah, I sometimes do video transcoding (mostly for fun, and for making old hardware start playing videos again)23:08
DanielTheFoxthe Pentium 4 is enough most of the time23:08
brocashelmah, cool. i finally phased out vlc and just use mpv now23:08
brocashelmffmpeg is ace23:09
DanielTheFoxjust as long as I don't do libx26423:09
brocashelmoh yeah those would take centuries23:09
brocashelmprecisely why i hate ripping dvds23:09
DanielTheFoxencoding h264 is slow, even MPEG4 Part2 (my favorite, a fair compromise between CPU usage and bitrate)23:09
DanielTheFoxyeah, when I rip DVDs, I use mpeg4, precisely23:09
DanielTheFoxbut then I have quite high bitrate (beyond 1 Mbps for SD video)23:10
prfilserDanielTheFox: Core Duo is preferable to Core 2 Duo ;);23:23
prfilserin good news, i am first person to get Blades of Exile running on devuan arm ;)23:24
golinux#debianfork is for non-support chitchat23:25
DanielTheFoxoh well23:35

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