freenode/#devuan/ Sunday, 2020-06-07

sixwheeledbeastobs can act a bit odd sometimes, it's mostly resolved by being persistent with it.00:00
crhylovesixwheeledbeast, Yeah, I've been a long time OBS user.00:04
crhyloveThis version the chroma key seems to work better...  But maybe I will build the newer one.00:04
crhyloveAny chance a newer one can get added to the repos before beowulf?00:04
sixwheeledbeastthat's all down to debian and the package maintainers00:05
sixwheeledbeastbullseye and sid have the latest release from what i can tell.00:07
crhyloveWould be great to steal a couple of small items from Mint for Devuan.00:08
crhyloveSome of the Mate Config items....00:08
crhyloveBut man, Devuan is running great for me!00:08
gnu_srsfsmithred:,krypton: I did also see from dmesg that udevd is started 3 times, see The first two shouldn't. Where does this come from?00:11
fsmithredI don't know00:11
fsmithredkrypton is booting an upgraded installed system (ascii to beowulf) and I'm booting a live-dvd00:12
fsmithredand if I boot to ram the problem doesn't happen (whole squashfs gets read into ram)00:13
* ShorTie Thinkz, that sounds funky00:52
sauron-need help. searched in internet but couldnt find the answer. i need to delete (not just hide them, actually delete those lines from the file) except the last line01:31
sauron-for example: grep 'tree' story . now from that result delete ALL (not hide) except the last one01:34
gnarfacesauron-: try sed or awk, grep is more for passive filtering02:12
yetigrep 'tree' story | tail -1      # ?02:45
sauron-yeti again, tail 'hides' the results, i need to delete the rest of the lines from the file02:56
yetiredirect to a tmpfile02:57
yetimv tmpfile original02:57
sauron-delete/erase those lines and keep only the last one02:57
yetiI  bet sed can do it directly somehow but I nearly dont use at alll02:58
syco-sed -n '$p'03:02
syco-but same as with tail .. create tmpfile, the overwrite as yeti suggested03:05
WafficusHi there, question about the Question Regarding Devuan Beowulf's ISO: Does anyone know which one is the minimal net installer? Is it the "installer-iso" or the "minimal-live" one?03:28
fsmithredWafficus, I think you want the netinstall iso.03:59
fsmithredyeah, that one03:59
some_alexhi! I don't see options to install current testing and unstable on the mirrors. Aren't there any ISOs for these releases yet?04:23
g4570nyou can upgrade form stable (beowulf) or use the mini.iso04:27
gnarfacesome_alex: it's not usual for there ever to actually be official installers for those releases, the advised method is to upgrade from stable or debootstrap from a live iso04:33
gnarfacesome_alex: (or just use the live installer of course)04:34
gnarfacesome_alex: the mini.iso is very useful if you don't want a gui for this04:35
bsd4meI run refracta beowulf but since beowulf is now stable, would there be any problem if I changed my sources.list from beowulf to testing?04:38
nemofsmithred: ooh. I've got another fun gaming-related linux issue after going back to amdgpu-pro after last night's failed attempt at using the upstream FOSS stuff with Beowulf04:38
nemofsmithred: Planetary Annihilation a few days ago decided to shift to gcc904:39
nemo./PA: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ version `GLIBCXX_3.4.26' not found (required by ./PA)04:39
fsmithredbsd4me, use codenames04:40
nemoso... I was curious if it's even possibly to install gcc-9 alongside gcc-8 on Beowulf04:40
nemoor, if I should just focus on hacking something together with LD_LIBRARY_PATH or using their "install old versions of game" tool04:40
fsmithredupgrades from beowulf to chimaera are untested, so let us know if it works04:40
bsd4mefsmithred: ok, thanks04:40
bsd4meWill do :)04:40
fsmithredI did make a chimaera live iso a couple days ago04:41
fsmithredjust as a test04:41
bsd4mewill go through the upgrade and note how it goes04:41
fsmithredtake a look at current notes for upgrades and migrations to beowulf04:42
fsmithredthere might be some relevant issues04:42
bsd4meoh, ok. Will read04:42
nemohmmmm chimaera does have gcc-9...04:42
nemowould it be a bad idea to put that on a computer the whole family is using?04:43
fsmithred yeah, probably bad idea04:43
fsmithredwe just started working on it04:43
nemofsmithred: do you know if force-installing dpkg -i or whatev gcc-9 from chimaera would also break all the things?04:44
fsmithredand it's same as bullseye, so debian is still working on it, too04:44
nemoor if they are intended for side by side deploy... I see gcc-6 is in beowulf...04:44
fsmithredgcc-8 in beowulf04:45
fsmithredand gcc-704:45
bsd4meI have to reboot, so will change sources.list to chimaera and see what it wants apt wants to do before doing upgrade itself. See which gcc it wants to upgrade to.04:46
nemofsmithred: oh. I was seeing 6 too. well, anyway, guess I'll dig up the chimaera package, install it, and cross my fingers04:47
nemoat worst hopefully I just break, I dunno, dkms or something04:47
nemohm. maybe just the chimaera libstdc++04:47
nemohuh. that's weird. devuan package search isn't finding libstdc++ in chimaera. that seems unlikely04:48
nemowell. maybe related to that "just started working on it" ☺04:49
WafficusQuestion regarding changing over an existing computer with Debian minimal installation Buster to Devuan. Could this process brick my computer? I ask because I could just easily backup my stuff and redo the entire disk with the Devuan ISO04:49
Wafficushowever, I wanted to know how effective it would be to literally just swap out Debian Buster with Devuan Beowulf, and if systemd is truly nuked from the computer during the process04:50
nemoWafficus: I tried ubuntu 14.04 to ascii and it was not pretty...04:50
nemoWafficus: I ended up just moving home to a nice safe partition and reinstalling system fresh04:50
gnarfacenemo: you could make a chroot to run steam from that has gcc904:50
fsmithredWafficus, use this:
nemognarface: ugh... soooo messsy. esp since PA *can* be run outside of steam. they even made a tool for it04:51
gnarfacenemo: (or PA from, but i assume you're doing this through steam)04:51
Wafficushmm that's a good idea to just move the home directory, that's a neat idea04:51
Wafficusnever thought of that04:51
WafficusI think Distrotube mentioned that on a recent video to easily swap between distros04:51
nemognarface:  they linked me to this as a suggestion, which is my fallback plan04:51
Wafficusto like place your /home directory on its own drive04:51
nemoWafficus: yeah, it's way more convenient.  you can always just reinstall the tools you need as you run into them04:51
Wafficusfsmithred: yes, I've seen this. Looks straight forward04:51
fsmithredreally, follow the guide if you're going to migrate from bustser to beowulf04:52
nemoWafficus: think of it as a way of ditching junk packages04:52
fsmithredthere are a couple of non-intuitive points04:52
Wafficusinteresting. Honestly, the Devuan installer is EXACTLY like the Debian min installer, so I've done it a few times, pretty good stuff04:52
Wafficuspretty happy its the same tbh04:52
nemognarface: hm. chroot seems like a lot of convolution, would be awesome if I could just use LD_LIBRARY_PATH, but I guess worst case..04:52
Wafficuswouldn't mind nuking the drive first to do so you know04:52
gnarfacenemo: another option would be to just upgrade the whole thing to chimera or ceres but i can't tell you for sure that a chroot won't save more trouble in the long run (especially if something goes wrong)04:53
nemognarface: yeah, I trust fsmithred telling me that would be bad times04:54
gnarfacenemo: unfortunately steam handles LD_LIBRARY_PATH wrong so it's useless... sometimes i have managed to get LD_PRELOAD to do what i need though instead04:55
nemognarface: I'm trying to organise my optinons... "play other stuff"  "use their tool to fetch/install pre-2020-05 PA" "hack at ld_library_path"  "force install a dpkg from... somewhere... with gcc-9 libstdc++ and cross my fingers" ...04:55
nemognarface: well. I'm pretty sure I can just run it from commandline04:55
nemognarface: it's not like I actually want to use steam ☺04:55
nemognarface: preload is indeed awesomesauce. I used it to patch my IPv6 years ago when linux failed hard at it04:55
nemognarface: (load in a patched function with the appropriate flags)04:56
gnarfacenemo: yea but the problem is the ripple effect of all the games being programmed to compensate for whatever whack thing Steam is doing, so they in turn still munge it badly in most cases, from what i have gathered (ymmv)04:56
gnarfacethen if the game has it's own sub-launcher things get really much worse04:56
gnarfacebut i think PA does not04:57
nemognarface: ever played it?04:57
nemoooooh that reminds me. gotta get Spring on this computer04:57
nemolet's see what version beowulf has04:57
gnarfacenemo: yes, i'm a big fan but empirical evidence suggests it's programmed rather badly.  how did you get it working on AMD in the first place?04:57
nemognarface: I haven't yet04:58
nemoI used to play it on nvidia04:58
nemothis is my first AMD attempt04:58
gnarfacenemo: oh i see.  i wish you luck then04:58
nemowell. AMD cpu... but I assume that's not what you meant :p04:58
gnarfacenemo: well i'm playing it on ceres because stable nvidia drivers fall behind by years at a time04:58
nemognarface: that's why I did the amdgpu-pro thing - it seems to be working rather well for my limited selection of "demanding" games04:59
gnarfacenemo: i had heard reports of game-breaking polygon rendering glitches in PA with amdgpu04:59
nemowell. we'll see05:00
bsd4meI have both gcc 6 and gcc 8 installed, so apt wants to install gcc 905:00
nemo"play other stuff" is an option05:00
gnarfacenemo: yea that was a while back but you haven't gotten gotten that far yet05:00
nemognarface: Spring *is* rather nice and I haven't tried 1944 in a while, looks like it's a lot more playable these days05:00
nemoshame their stable release is so old05:00
nemosince naturally that's exactly what devuan used ☺05:00
Wafficushas anyone gotten Steam to work decently?05:01
WafficusI ask because I would be willing to have a totally different Steam based partition for games and emulators for Devuan on another drive05:02
nemoWafficus: depends what you're looking for.05:02
nemoseems fine for me05:02
nemoWafficus: I don't mess aroudn with wine ofc05:02
gnarfaceWafficus: very subjective, i can tell you that over 80% of my games usually work on ceres with the latest nvidia drivers05:02
nemoWafficus: only games currently running in wine are some nostalgia ones (Warcraft III, Spore for the kids) and Untitled Goose05:03
gnarfaceWafficus: (which ones tend to vary at any given time, but there are definitely some that break more often than others)05:03
nemoWafficus: if you're not on nvidia, this was where I was yesterday.
gnarfaceWafficus: oh, and their new proton thing is very handy if you don't want to mess with wine05:04
Wafficusmostly for Steam Proton05:04
WafficusAs much as I don't mind tweaking my linux comps05:04
WafficusI for one can't stand trying to tweak a game just to work05:04
WafficusI just want to double click and play, no questions asked05:04
man_in_shacksteam proton sounds like a malaysian car05:04
Wafficushowever, I only casually play them to be honest05:04
nemoWafficus: it's a liiiittle annoying which is why I tend to stick to the Linux ones on steam.  but my daughter really really really wanted to play untitled goose ☺05:04
Wafficusso its not like an imperative thing.05:04
gnarfaceWafficus: well, it's going to be disappointing in that regard compared to windows, but the ones that work well really shine for performance usually05:05
nemoI wish steam would filter their offers to linxu only05:05
nemoor offer it as an option05:05
gnarfaceWafficus: if you do it, make sure you use the package in the devuan repo NOT the one from the steam website05:06
Wafficusgnarface: yeah I know, luckily the games I kind of sometimes play aren't too too demanding05:06
Wafficusmostly the building type games like Minecraft, Terraria, Stardew Valley. I do like the Warriors Orochi  games though05:07
Wafficushowever, I've kind of out grown the need honestly, and its like a sometimes thing05:07
WafficusI'm more into emulators if I'm in that mood anyway, so its not a deal breaker05:07
man_in_shackcraftview terravalley05:07
gnarfaceWafficus: well, let me know if you need help with it, a large amount of the issues just boil down to untracked dependencies, or version conflicts05:08
gnarfaceWafficus: sometimes you have to add some junk to a particular game's launch options05:08
gnarfaceWafficus: sometimes you have to force it to use the system libSDL205:08
gnarfaceWafficus: stuff like that05:08
Wafficusgnarface: gotcha05:09
Wafficusgnarface: cool, I appreciate that05:09
Wafficusyeah for now, I have my Steam install on my Arch partition on the desktop05:09
Wafficushowever that has blowed up so many times from me literally doing nothing that I am thinking about just abandoning that partition and wiping it05:10
Wafficusthe Arch install was a learning experience though05:10
gnarfacehehe, a learning experience in risk aversion, eh?05:10
Wafficuswhen I asked about that issue too, it most likely is a Nvidia video card driver issue which is weird since I had the latest drivers on that machine05:10
Wafficusyeah possibly05:10
Wafficushonestly, I just liked the whole Debian way05:10
Wafficusstability, never have to check on it05:10
Wafficusyeah, you got old packages that are annoying05:10
nemoWafficus: Factorio?05:11
Wafficusbut man, at least the damn thing will boot if needed05:11
gnarfacenvidia driver issues do plague the gaming experience but overall the least of all their competitors05:11
Wafficusnemo: what?05:11
nemoWafficus: building type game that is linux friendly05:11
nemonot sure if that's your kind of building tho05:11
gnarfaceoh yea, factorio worked right out of the box, no tweaking05:11
Wafficusah I see never played it05:11
nemognarface: there's a freenode channel too ☺05:12
nemofan one I think05:12
nemognarface: KSP worked out of the box too05:12
Wafficusthe only game that was kind of slight crashing was that Warriors Orochi 4 game though which was kind of disappointing05:12
gnarfacenemo: KSP does not work out of the box if you don't have pulseaudio installed05:12
Wafficusas I would prefer to play that on PC with a better framerate than on my Switch or something05:12
nemognarface: meh.05:12
nemognarface: libpulse surely works?05:12
nemoas interface to alsa05:13
gnarfaceWafficus: oh yea, not having pulseaudio installed is a common tripping point for a few games but i've managed to avoid actually being forced to run it with some trickery05:13
nemognarface: frankly if you don't have pulseaudio installed you'll have run into need for libpulse interface well before that.  firefox for example now uses pulse api only05:13
gnarfacenemo: you have to symlink libpulse to /dev/null then force it to use that05:13
gnarfacenemo: no, the firefox-esr builds in the repo do not require pulseaudio anymore05:14
nemognarface: ah. don't really use ESR05:14
gnarfacenemo: actually the regular firefox build in ceres right now might not either but i'm not sure...05:14
nemobut surprised they chose to maintain that05:14
nemognarface: firefox wrote their own audio system in rust, but chose pulse as the api layer05:14
nemodue to, well, needing to pick something. doesn't seem like that big a deal though, since pulse api exists for alsa these days05:15
nemognarface: but yeah, of the thirty linux games in my steam library, this issue with PA was the first problem I ever had05:16
gnarfaceWafficus: i got your back on steam controller support without systemd, too, there's some custom udev rules05:16
nemoapart from Witcher 2 and nouveau long ago05:16
gnarfacei think i have around like 80 games, and it's rare for them all to work at once but usually only one or two are persistently broken05:16
gnarfacethanks to the latest proton release i finally have Magicka 1 working05:17
gnarfaceand Bioshock2 working again after it broke in wine05:17
gnarface(Bioshock2 original release)05:18
some_alexgnarface: so if I have a beowulf install how do I upgrade to these releases?05:19
gnarfacesome_alex: process for that hasn't changed from Debian; basically you just change your sources.list then "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade"05:20
devuanhello guys, when launching xterm, it reports problems with fonts..05:20
gnarfacesome_alex: only thing different is the repo url and release code names05:20
gnarfacedevuan: if it's complaining that they're missing, just install them from the repo05:21
devuanthe problem is what fonts05:21
gnarfacedevuan: if you need me to take a look at the paste, use or just /msg it to me directly05:22
gnarfacedevuan: most the fonts that are going to be relevant to you are in packages named ttf-* or fonts-*05:22
nemognarface: you into FOSS games at all?05:23
nemognarface: Wesnoth, Spring, Hedgewars05:23
gnarfacenemo: ioquake305:23
man_in_shackblob wars05:23
nemognarface: ah. not a huge FPS fan05:23
devuannemo does you play Wesnoth?05:23
devuanI am a big fan of it05:23
devuanjust can't pass the level I am into the 3rd campain05:24
nemodevuan: I've done most of the single player campaigns. aaaand some multiplayer. but not much. mostly just casual friends/families05:24
nemodevuan: used to savescum but not much anymore. it's pretty easy to ensure the expendables take the hit on an aggresssive expansion on normal05:24
devuanI didn't kew we can play in network in Wesnoth :)05:24
nemodevuan: oh sure. if it wasn't so late I'd setup a game05:25
nemodevuan: I mean, it's right in the main menu. 3rd from top 😃05:25
gnarfacealright, take the game-specific issues into #debianfork05:25
nemoI think it even works on the Android port05:25
devuannemo, is there a big amount of players?05:25
nemognarface: hmmmm even if I'm asking specific beowulf questions like "what happens if I install gcc-9" using dpkg in beowulf? :p05:25
gnarfacenemo: some people around here may even object to Steam support issues, it's just a warning05:26
devuanok gnarface, sorry but it was about wesnoth, nevertheless you right05:26
gnarfacenemo: IMO the gcc9 think is at the boundary but not crossing it.  Wesnoth strategy discussions definitely cross it though05:27
gnarfacei have no authority here, i'm not reprimanding either of you, i'm just voicing a warning before we all get busted :)05:27
nemohm... well. anyway. if someone can help me find a .deb for a libstdc++ compiled by gcc9 would appreciate it. I'm feeling adventurous05:27
gnarfaceif it's not in beowulf-backports i think the chroot honestly only SOUNDS like more trouble05:28
gnarfacebackporting libstc++ is going to put you in a world of pain05:28
gnarfacei went through this over a earlier gcc version during the squeeze->wheezy upgrade05:29
gnarfaceyou're gonna end up backporting half the distro05:29
gnarfaceby the time you finish you might as well have just upgraded to testing or used a chroot05:29
gnarfaceif it IS in beowulf-backports already, goodness just get it from there and save yourself the headache of building it05:30
gnarfacewith a chroot at least all you waste is disk space;  the risk of hosing the whole install is relatively low05:32
nemognarface: well wasn't thinking of backporting so much as force-installing the lib05:32
nemowith no deps05:32
nemothen seeing if I could just point PA at it05:32
nemoand crossing my fingers that the rest resolves05:33
gnarfacenemo: best case scenario is it works fine but you introduce random crash gremlins throughout the entire system05:33
nemognarface: mmm welll could just unpackage the .deb and point the problematic program at it with ld_library_path without actually installing...05:34
nemoI guess at that point I'm halfway to a chroot05:34
gnarfacenemo: it gets easier every time05:35
gnarfacenemo: i dunno, unpacking it into the game's install directory then trying to force the game to use those versions with environment variables or something could work.  don't let me stop you from trying if you really want05:36
gnarfacenemo: i just can't actually meaningfully help you accomplish that05:37
nemochroot seemed like a lot to maintain, but I guess it just boils down to grabbing a ceres iso and burning a bit more disc space05:38
nemoand it's not like I have a shortage of that05:38
gnarfacenemo: no you can just debootstrap into a directory then chroot into that05:38
gnarfacenemo: no need to get a iso05:38
nemooh... got a guide to link to? sounds like I need one05:39
gnarfacenemo: only real issue is the ~2GB disk space overhead05:39
gnarfaceuh... hmmm05:39
nemo2GB O_o05:39
nemobut eh.05:39
nemo/dev/sda1       7.2T  3.0T  4.0T  43% /05:39
gnarfaceall the gcc crap05:39
gnarfacenemo: maybe this?
gnarfacenemo: that may complicate it a little.  i'm not sure copying /etc/hosts and /proc/mounts matters05:42
gnarfacenemo: actually, just try this:  debootstrap chimera ./targetdir
gnarfacenemo: then:  mount -o bind /sys ./targetdir/sys05:45
gnarfacenemo: then repeat this ^ for /proc, /dev, and /dev/pts05:45
nemook. lessee. where shall I put this05:45
gnarfacenemo: then just chroot ./targetdir /bin/bash05:45
gnarfacenemo: when you're done with it, just ctrl+d to exit out, but you might want to make sure to unmount all those bind mounts too05:46
gnarfacenemo: (may not matter)05:46
gnarfacethis is also a very useful trick for getting a clean build environment without polluting your base install05:47
nemoE: No such script: /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/chimaera05:48
nemoeh. it's late anyway05:48
nemowill fiddle with this tomorrow05:48
gnarfacewait, what about with ceres?05:48
gnarfaceis that not the devuan version of debootstrap?05:48
gnarfacemaybe it just hasn't been patched for chimera yet05:49
gnarfacemaybe even if it's the devaun version05:49
gnarfaceit might just need to recognize chimera as a valid release name05:49
gnarfacei haven't tested it with chimera yet, only with ceres05:49
gnarfaceactually i've tested it with ceres, ascii, AND beowulf, just not chimera05:49
gnarfacebut i also know it won't work with the debian version of debootstrap05:50
gnarface(for any devuan version)05:50
nemognarface: I installed bootstrap on beowulf so you'd think it'd be the devuan one...05:52
nemoPreparing to unpack .../debootstrap_1.0.114+devuan2_all.deb ...05:52
nemooh well g'nite05:52
devuandoes any one knows, how to execute '/usr/bin/xterm -e /usr/sbin/Ceni' in a button, in openbox?06:03
devuanCeni is a network manager, but it needs root06:04
devuanalso it runs in a terminal06:04
devuanI have a button for it, but it doesn't launch it06:04
devuantought on the terminal I can launch it correctly06:04
devuanI assigned a button to this command, but to no avail :(06:07
gnarfacenemo: on ceres /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/chimaera is just a symlink to /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/ceres anyway, i'd say just symlink and try again06:13
gnarfacenemo: or do it with ceres, the difference may be negligible to you if this is all you're going to do with it...06:14
bsd4mefsmithred: I did a 2-step upgrade. First ran apt upgrade after changing sources.list to chimaera, then rebooted and checked how it operated. Everything seemed fine, so then I ran apt dist-upgrade, installed new kernel, and rebooted.06:59
bsd4meLinux refracta 5.6.0-2-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.6.14-1 (2020-05-23) x86_64 GNU/Linux06:59
bsd4meNot one problem with upgrading so far. Everything seems to be operating correctly06:59
some_alexgnarface: thanks! I just never really upgraded my Debian-based systems because I've been distro-hopping for some time07:19
frabbitis there a way to write german umlauts whith an us keyboardlayout?07:29
frabbitoh and the §07:29
frabbitalso ° seems to be missing on us layout07:30
tuxd3vfrabbit, maybe a papyrus is good for that?07:30
frabbittuxd3v: a papyrus? =D07:30
frabbitu mean paper07:30
WafficusHi there, I have a question regarding rebooting with Devuan without systemd07:31
WafficusI'm used to systemctl reboot or systemctl poweroff07:31
Wafficuswhat are the Devuan variants without systemd?07:31
frabbitWafficus: reboot and shutdown -h now07:32
frabbittuxd3v: this:
Wafficusoh ok thanks07:32
WafficusI have another question07:32
WafficusI completely redid my current system from start to finish with Devuan. I've got two questions, why is it that when I log off from AwesomeWM into LightDM, I'm not given the option to be able to powerdown or restart?07:32
WafficusI'm able to select from the top right menu to attempt to select these options to restart or powerdown07:33
Wafficusbut they're greyed out for some reason and don't allow me to choose any option07:34
Wafficusnot sure if this is a LightDM specific problem though07:34
frabbitWafficus: ah i had this too.. let me check logs what this was...07:36
Wafficusok thanks07:38
frabbitWafficus: oh sorry, that wasnt from lightdm it was from de menu... D=07:40
Wafficusthis issue is here
Wafficusthe problem is that I'm wondering07:41
Wafficusbecause I've used lightdm07:42
Wafficusdoes that mean lightdm installed systemd?07:42
WafficusI ask because I specifically chose Devuan to NOT use systemd07:42
frabbitsystemd affects alot of packages...07:42
Wafficusor is it a case in which lightdm is dependent upon systemd in the first place so thats why it can't work without it07:42
frabbitbut reboot and shutdown from lightdm works07:42
frabbiton devuan07:42
Wafficusnot on my build for whatever reason07:43
Wafficusthey're greyed out07:43
WafficusI installed it from apt, if that helps07:44
frabbityou probably need these consolekit policykit something i dunno, i needed to install some of that to get graphically things to work, but i cant give u a tutorial cause i dont use a dm, or a fm that can mount as non root user and so on07:44
frabbitand i didnt sorted my notes what i was needed to do for taht system with similiar problems yet07:45
frabbitmaybe this:
Wafficusah I see07:46
Wafficusis it possible to then remove lightdm at this point?07:46
Wafficuswhat would I then use instead?07:46
frabbiti had installed slim first on that beginner system but somehow it crashes often when wicd-gtk is installed too (maybe thats different for you)07:48
frabbitafter that i tried xdm yesterday07:48
frabbitbut with slim and xdm u cant reboot or shutdown thats what u need to know07:48
WafficusI gotcha07:49
frabbityou would need to make that with the de menu07:49
frabbitbut u said u are using awesome?07:49
frabbitso probably no de there?07:49
Wafficusyeah just using AwesomeWM07:49
WafficusI tried doing "reboot" and "shutdown"07:49
Wafficusboth as a regular user07:50
tuxd3vWafficus, type this on your system07:50
Wafficusand as root07:50
tuxd3v'if acpi_available; then echo true; else echo false;fi'07:50
Wafficusneither worked unfortunately07:50
frabbitk then u need to a su shell or sudo07:50
Wafficussam@samdevuan ~ $ if acpi_available; then echo true; else echo false;fi07:50
frabbitWafficus: u catn run these commands as non root07:50
Wafficus-bash: acpi_available: command not found07:50
Wafficusnot in my case for whatever reason07:51
Wafficussam@samdevuan ~ $ reboot07:51
tuxd3vI have it07:51
Wafficus-bash: reboot: command not found07:51
frabbitWafficus: you need to be root07:51
WafficusI tried that as well07:51
Wafficussame thing07:51
frabbityou cant reboot or shutdown as root? o_007:51
tuxd3vpackage: 'powermgmt-base'07:51
Wafficusroot@samdevuan:/home/sam# shutdown -h07:51
Wafficusbash: shutdown: command not found07:51
Wafficustuxd3v: is that for users like myself who don't want systemd?07:52
Wafficusthe 'powermgmt-base' package?07:52
tuxd3vthis is for everybody on x86 :)07:52
frabbitbut shutdown for example must be in the sysvinit package:
tuxd3vyes, check if you have it07:53
tuxd3vWafficus, dpkg -l |grep powermgmt-base07:54
Wafficusyes, as in it DOES contain systemd?07:54
tuxd3vWafficus, well, are you in x86?07:54
tuxd3vno devuan doesn't contain systemd07:55
WafficusI saw this possible solution07:55
Wafficusroot@samdevuan:/home/sam# dpkg -l | grep powermgmt-base07:55
Wafficusii  powermgmt-base                       1.34                                all          common utils for power management07:55
WafficusI saw this solution
tuxd3vyo you have it..07:55
tuxd3vtype as root07:55
WafficusI tried07:55
tuxd3vif acpi_available; then echo true; else echo false;fi07:56
Wafficusroot@samdevuan:/home/sam# if acpi_available; then echo true; else echo false; fi07:56
Wafficusbash: acpi_available: command not found07:56
tuxd3vapt-get install --reinstall powermgmt-base07:56
Wafficusok doing so now07:57
Wafficusdid that07:58
Wafficusstill the same result07:58
Wafficusoroot@samdevuan:/home/sam# reboot07:58
Wafficusbash: reboot: command not found07:58
Wafficusroot@samdevuan:/home/sam# poweroff07:58
Wafficusbash: poweroff: command not found07:58
Wafficus* ignore the "oroot", initial command got cut off07:58
tuxd3vyour system is incomplete for sure..07:59
Wafficusall I did was install the min install via the Devuan Beowulf net installer07:59
tuxd3vit could be that now there are more options for init systems there..08:00
WafficusI did the suggested first option08:01
Wafficussysinit or something like that08:01
Wafficus* for people who don't know what they're doing... aka me08:01
tuxd3vdo this08:01
tuxd3vdpkg -l| grep sysvinit-core08:01
Wafficusroot@samdevuan:/home/sam# dpkg -l | grep sysvinit-core08:02
Wafficusii  sysvinit-core                        2.93-8+devuan1                      amd64        System-V-like init utilities08:02
frabbitsomething seems broken then...08:02
tuxd3vwhait, you should have a problem with your PATH..sorry for not get it sooner08:02
tuxd3vecho $PATH08:02
Wafficusas root, or reg user?08:03
tuxd3vyou should have something like:08:03
tuxd3vas root08:03
Wafficusroot@samdevuan:/home/sam# echo $PATH08:03
tuxd3vyou don't have :/sbin08:05
WafficusI see... do I have to redo the install then?08:05
tuxd3vho you also don't have \/usr/local/sbin08:05
frabbitme neither =)08:06
frabbitoh no wait as root i have this08:06
tuxd3vWafficus, your problem is that you don't have essentially /sbin in your root path08:08
Wafficusso how do I fix that?08:08
Wafficusdo I have to revise my .bashrc accordingly?08:08
tuxd3vdo one thins first08:11
tuxd3vexport PATH=${PATH}:/sbin08:11
tuxd3von the shell, then08:11
tuxd3vwhich shutdown08:12
tuxd3vas root08:12
Wafficusok I did as root:08:13
Wafficusexport PATH=${PATH}:/sbin08:13
Wafficusnow what do I have to do?08:13
tuxd3vtype :08:13
tuxd3vwhich shutdown08:13
tuxd3vit should show you the command, also 'acpi_available' should be present08:15
tuxd3vbut it his for now yet only in that shell session08:15
Wafficusroot@samdevuan:/home/sam# which shutdown08:15
tuxd3vnow you have both shutdown, and acpi_available08:16
tuxd3vbut its only yet in that shell session08:16
Wafficusok so what modification do I need to make to my .bashrc though?08:16
tuxd3vyou need to put it in the .bashrc08:16
WafficusI haven't included the PATH variable in my .bashrc08:16
tuxd3vyes :)08:16
Wafficusas in like EXPORT something?08:16
Wafficuslike this command:08:17
Wafficusexport PATH=${PATH}:/sbin08:17
Wafficusat the top of my .bashrc?08:17
tuxd3vat the bottom08:17
Wafficusok I added it08:18
Wafficusone sec08:18
tuxd3vok :)08:18
Wafficuswill be back in one sec08:19
tuxd3vno problem :)08:19
Wafficustuxd3v: yup, now they work just fine08:21
Wafficusthanks a ton for that08:21
Wafficusnot sure about the whole lightdm thing08:21
tuxd3vno problem08:21
Wafficusbut this will work as a workaround while I read those potential solutions with polkit08:21
Wafficusis polkit part of systemd as well?08:21
WafficusI ask because the one workaround is to possibly install that so that lightdm plays nicely08:21
tuxd3vI remember some 10 years ago, I was fighting for the same problem.. and like you can see it left some scars :D08:22
tuxd3vI still remember about it..08:22
Wafficusha nice08:22
Wafficusgotcha, I'm assuming you're on the Devuan team too?08:22
Wafficusor just a user?08:22
WafficusI ask because you're pretty knowledgable, and it helped a ton08:22
tuxd3vI am a user that also contribute to the devuan community08:22
tuxd3vI am sysadmin, for the last 22 years :)08:22
Wafficusthat's awesome08:23
WafficusI just do tech support for legal software for my actual day job08:23
Wafficusmostly Windoze based *snore08:23
Wafficushowever, I do use Emacs to organize my todo list with org mode for it08:23
Wafficusso I guess that's the fun part08:23
yeti\o/ org08:23
tuxd3vbut I commiteda terrible mistake..I took some 5 minutes to debug something so trivial for us..i'm a bit ashamed, but ok08:23
WafficusI am however debating just totally getting a second drive to dual boot and run Windows as a vm ha08:23
tuxd3vcommiteda -> commited08:24
tuxd3vdo one more thing08:24
Wafficusits totally fine08:24
tuxd3vjust check this08:24
Wafficusyeti: do you like Emacs too?08:24
tuxd3vgrep -n "PATH" /etc/profile --color08:24
yetiWafficus: org/babel and org-brain08:24
Wafficussam@samdevuan ~ $ grep -n "PATH" /etc/profile --color08:24
Wafficus5:  PATH="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin"08:24
Wafficus7:  PATH="/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games"08:25
Wafficus9:export PATH08:25
tuxd3vinteresting.. there you have the /sbin in the first line08:25
tuxd3vwhen you pass from a user to root, you can do it safelly as 'sudo su -'08:25
Wafficussam@samdevuan ~ $ sudo su08:26
Wafficus-bash: sudo: command not found08:26
Wafficusyeah I haven't installed sudo yet I don't think08:26
WafficusI'd have to add the "sam" user into the list I think too08:26
Wafficusits been a while, forget how to do it08:26
WafficusI've always just did su anyway08:26
tuxd3vusermod -a -G sudo sam08:27
tuxd3vto add your user to the sudo group08:27
tuxd3vWafficus, typing first sudo08:30
tuxd3vit will ask for your own user password08:30
tuxd3vits saffer08:30
tuxd3vin a server were a lot of users login08:30
frabbitcan anyone help me with my pinta problem i asked about on friday here please:
tuxd3vsometimes you could left the root password typed in the history08:31
tuxd3vusing sudo on front you are always safer :)08:31
WafficusI don't have sudo on the machine though08:33
tuxd3vfrabbit, ho.. I see you are in the dark side =D( '/usr/bin/mono' )08:33
Wafficussam@samdevuan ~ $ sudo08:33
Wafficus-bash: sudo: command not found08:33
yetisu -c 'commands'    # is too ugly too type08:33
frabbittuxd3v: dark side? =o08:33
tuxd3vfrabbit, heheh =D08:34
WafficusI have to add myself to the sudoers list right?08:34
* enyc meows08:34
tuxd3vlogin as root08:34
tuxd3v'su -'08:34
Wafficusyeah I did apt install sudo08:34
tuxd3vthen install sudo08:34
WafficusI now have sudo08:34
tuxd3vapt-get install -y sudo08:34
tuxd3vusermod -a -G sudo sam08:34
Wafficusok I did that08:35
frabbittuxd3v: what do u mean?08:35
tuxd3vfrabbit, you are using mono08:35
tuxd3vfor the logs I saw08:35
frabbitok go on please...08:35
tuxd3vin the chat :)08:35
frabbitpinta comes with that08:36
tuxd3vin the past, it was a heresy to use mono :)08:36
WafficusI tried sudo poweroff08:36
tuxd3vfrabbit, I was kidding of-course ;)08:36
Wafficusand entered my usual login password08:36
Wafficussudo] password for sam:08:36
Wafficussam is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.08:36
tuxd3vany user should be free to use what he wants :)08:36
tuxd3vlogin as root08:37
tuxd3v'su -'08:37
WafficusI also tried the root password I setup during the installation too08:37
frabbitoh i see that thing is for m$ net something.08:37
tuxd3vusermod -a -G sudo sam08:37
Wafficusok I'm logged in as root08:37
Wafficusyeah I did that08:37
tuxd3vtype 'id sam'08:37
yetimay I suggest a 1 liner in /etc/sudoers.d for user sam?08:37
frabbitok i didnt know.. but i want a smaller image manipulating program then gimp or inkscape...08:37
frabbitfor cutting photos08:38
tuxd3vyeti, that is also a good option :)08:38
Wafficusroot@samdevuan:/home/sam# usermod -a -G sudo sam08:38
Wafficusbash: usermod: command not found08:38
tuxd3vfrabbit, you can, and should use what ever you want to... freedom comes with that option :)08:38
tuxd3vWafficus, its a PATH problem again08:39
frabbittuxd3v: dsure i can but it doesnt work... do u know any other small programs like that?08:39
yetiuse full path //usr/sbin/usermod ...08:39
tuxd3vWafficus, yeti idea is a very good short-cut :)08:40
tuxd3v'/usr/sbin/usermod -a -G sudo sam'08:41
Wafficusright I did that variant too08:42
tuxd3vtype now08:42
tuxd3vid sam08:42
yetineeds relogin08:42
yetithe added group08:42
Wafficussam@samdevuan ~ $ id sam08:43
Wafficusuid=1000(sam) gid=1000(sam) groups=1000(sam),24(cdrom),25(floppy),27(sudo),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),103(netdev),105(bluetooth),109(lpadmin),110(scanner)08:43
yetior exec a new shell wit --login option in the terminal08:43
tuxd3vWafficus, now to a test08:43
tuxd3v'sudo su -'08:43
tuxd3vand type your own 'sam' user password08:43
Wafficussam@samdevuan ~ $ sudo su -08:44
Wafficus[sudo] password for sam:08:44
Wafficussam is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.08:44
yetithe superpower of sudo is not needing to do everything as root08:44
yetiprefix only the commands where you need superpowers with sudo instead of launching a rootshell08:44
yetithat avoids many lines you would do as root in a rootshell...08:45
tuxd3vyeti, but with sudo, you always type your own password and not the root one08:45
yetiless lines as root, less dangers08:45
tuxd3vso its safer08:45
yetiin a rootshell you tend to do everything as root... even the lines you could do as user08:46
WafficusI still wonder why its not in the sudoers file, even though I added sam to the right group08:46
tuxd3vlogout and login again08:46
tuxd3vtype logout08:46
tuxd3vI believe you are in a graphical environment,08:47
tuxd3vlogout and login again..08:47
yetia new loginshell is enough08:47
tuxd3vyeti, true :)08:47
yetibash --login08:47
yetior a new shell window08:48
Wafficussame thing happens in a new bash shell terminal08:48
tuxd3vWafficus, if you type 'su - root'08:49
tuxd3vand login directly with root password, not Sam one..08:49
tuxd3vdo a 'echo $PATH'08:49
Wafficussam@samdevuan ~ $ su - root08:49
WafficusI can utilize the root password in that case08:49
Wafficusecho $PATH as root08:50
Wafficusor 'sam' user?08:50
tuxd3vyou are already root :)08:50
tuxd3vjust type:08:50
tuxd3v'echo $PATH'08:50
Wafficusroot@samdevuan:~# echo $PATH08:50
tuxd3vok now its correct08:50
tuxd3vI mean your PATH is correct based on /etc/profile ;)08:51
Wafficusaka .bashrc08:51
Wafficusin ~/ directory08:51
Wafficus$HOME *08:51
tuxd3vit uses the Global place for the PATH initially08:52
tuxd3vwhich is /etc/profile08:52
tuxd3vthat's why I asked you to run some moments ago:08:52
Wafficusright but if someone has a .bashrc config in their home directory, then that should overrite it08:52
tuxd3vyou can overwrite it, or complement it08:53
tuxd3vin this case you will add at the end a new path to the already existing places08:54
tuxd3v& -> $08:54
Wafficusso why am I still not in the sudoers file?08:56
tuxd3vin theory you should be able to reboot, shutdown and stuff :)08:56
WafficusI ask directly since I wanna go to sleep soon, but would want to figure out why that's the case08:56
Wafficusright I can just do su08:56
Wafficusand then those two commands08:56
Wafficusthat's not a problem08:56
Wafficusits the sudo thing08:57
Wafficuswhy can't I just do sudo (command) without it complaining that I'm not in the sudoers list08:57
tuxd3vI would logout from the graphicalenvironment08:57
Wafficuseven though I've already added sam into that list08:57
tuxd3vand login again08:57
Wafficusand see if continues right?08:57
tuxd3vand type after08:57
tuxd3v'sudo su -'08:57
tuxd3vto test08:57
Wafficusok will do thanks08:57
tuxd3vno problem :)08:58
Wafficusyep it works now08:59
Wafficusyou were right08:59
Wafficusthanks a ton again tuxd3v08:59
Wafficuswill be back tomorrow or so about the 'lightdm' issue08:59
Wafficuspeace for now09:00
tuxd3vyou shouldn't have it now09:00
tuxd3vdoes you continue to have that buttons grey?09:00
yetihe's gone09:00
tuxd3vyeti, yeah thanks :)09:00
yetican hexchat color nicks of no longe present users differently?09:01
yetiweechat can... thats why I see ppl leaving09:02
ejris devuan always going to be free of horrible things like snaps?09:02
yetishould it?09:02
ejri had to use ubuntu for about a month, and it was a terrible experience with snaps specifically..09:03
yetiusing snap by default in devuan doesn't fit devuan's style09:04
gnarfaceeven ubuntu is dropping snaps aren't they?09:05
tuxd3vfrabbit, do a strace path/to/pinta09:15
tuxd3vand when it crashes catch the output of it09:16
frabbittuxd3v: a strace?09:23
tuxd3vfrabbit, yes09:24
tuxd3vit would help debug the problem09:24
tuxd3vit will print lots of things to the console, that is what we want to debug09:24
frabbiti mean what is a strace?09:24
frabbiti cant translate it09:25
tuxd3vstrace - System call tracer09:25
frabbitok a program09:25
tuxd3vsometimes we use it to debug something09:25
tuxd3vyes sorry09:26
tuxd3vits a program09:26
frabbit"strace pinta" floods my terminal09:27
tuxd3vand could be there some information usefull to find the root cause of it crashing :)09:27
frabbitand pinta doesnt start09:27
frabbitwhat do i have to tun?09:28
tuxd3vdoes he finds pinta?09:28
tuxd3vyou are with root?09:29
frabbitwhat?! of course not09:29
frabbiti dont start any guish things as root...09:29
tuxd3vI don't know if you can strace without been root09:29
frabbitdo i have to run "strace pinta"? thats all?09:30
frabbitah now it has started09:31
frabbitok i tried to crop a photo and it crashes again09:32
frabbitwhat next?09:32
tuxd3vpaste the output09:33
tuxd3vit gives you09:33
tuxd3vthe system calls09:33
tuxd3vthat is mono, and mono uses dlls, probably the problem is there, or in the fonts it uses..09:34
frabbitbut the output was on terminal09:34
frabbitor is tehre a file by default?09:34
tuxd3von terminal09:34
frabbityeah i cant scroll back so much here09:35
tuxd3vyep that wwas also something that I tought, because it is very verbose09:35
frabbitcan i do strace pinta > file.txt ?09:35
tuxd3vyes you can :)09:36
frabbitno i cant file is empty...09:37
frabbitoutput was done on terminal09:37
frabbitwhat yes?09:38
tuxd3vdo 'strace path/to/pinta 2>&1 > file.log'09:38
frabbitwork neither, empty file again09:40
tuxd3vdo one thing09:44
tuxd3vldd path/to/pinta09:44
frabbitok, output is "not a dynamic executable"09:45
tuxd3vso its staticly compiled..09:46
tuxd3vbut for what I see in the log you showed I see dynamic libraries09:46
tuxd3vwhat we call shared libraries09:46
tuxd3vot maybe it has dynamic libraries, but called from inside of mono stuff..09:47
tuxd3vone option would be to increase your buffer size09:48
tuxd3vmine has 50000 lines09:49
tuxd3vits what I need to see the output log of all process compilation of a kernel, modules,dtbs,etc09:49
frabbiti dont understand09:49
tuxd3vwhat is your virtual console09:50
tuxd3vwhat is your programm?09:50
frabbitu mean terminal emulator?09:50
tuxd3vxfce terminal09:50
frabbiti can scrollback using screen09:50
frabbitso thats what u mean09:51
frabbitwith buffer09:51
tuxd3vright you play in the suckless side of the world :)09:51
tuxd3vI don't know if stterm has any option to encriese the buffer size09:51
frabbitbut screen has09:51
tuxd3vscreen -d -m strace path/to/pinta09:52
frabbitscreen -h NumberOfLinesHere09:52
frabbiti hope 1000000 will be enough xD09:53
tuxd3vthat is too much09:53
tuxd3vput some 100000 on it :)09:53
frabbitoh this time it crahses just as i opened the image..09:53
tuxd3vso its random09:55
frabbito_0 i will scroll to the top forever....09:55
tuxd3vif you type 'g' you don't go to the top right?09:56
tuxd3vtype PgUp09:58
frabbiti have just copy lines from the bottom where i think that pinta has started but i cant paste the09:59
frabbitits ctrl+a+] by default but it seems that this isnt working in firesucks... errr... firefox10:00
frabbitcant paste it to vim either10:02
tuxd3vcreate a text file in a editor10:03
frabbitas i said the paste shortcut doesnt work in vim(.tiny)10:05
yetior ^a H for screen's logging?10:05
frabbitwhat do u mean_ thats not an screen option10:14
tuxd3vfrabbit, if you select text, and then ctrl+Insert, then paste it in a text file like Shift+Insert10:26
tuxd3vor with mouse middle button10:27
frabbitctr+insert doesnt work and with mouthbutton it will take forever to mark all that lines...10:30
frabbitcause u cant use screens marking and then paste it with mouse10:31
frabbitif it were possible u would already have mz output10:31
yetimark with screen, then paste it after typing "cat > xxx [enter]"?10:48
yetiand ^d after paste10:48
frabbityeti: yay that works =D10:52
se7enThere are some more significant errors I've discovered after upgrading10:58
se7enWhen not on my thinkpad dock, and booting the latest kernel, the init hangs on irqbalencer10:59
se7enAnd there is a clicking sound by the internal buzzer10:59
se7enBooting into the previous kernel gets past this, but there are several errors following it, all for laptop-mode11:00
buZzyeti: you can copypaste with just screen , ctrl+A [ to select/copy, ctrl+A ] to paste11:00
se7enIn an attempt to rectify this, I am running `apt install --reinstall task-laptop11:00
frabbittuxd3v: ok file is > 15MB11:01 413 Request Entity Too Large - xD11:02
frabbiti have paste it at but the result still loads xD11:06
frabbitbuZz: see above whz that didnt worked11:07
buZzscreen doesnt fucntion inside firefox, correct11:07
buZzare you uploading a 15MB log file? O_o11:08
buZzeven the bible is under 5MB11:08
frabbitbuZz: yes11:09
frabbitpaste2 gave same error now11:10
buZzthats a big log11:10
buZzwhats in it?11:10
frabbitstrace pinta11:10
buZzoh dear , a mono app ? :D11:11
buZzoh hey, thats even in devuan?11:11
frabbiti want a smaller program then gimp or inkscape to crop photos11:11
* buZz tries it out11:11
buZzfrabbit: why not imagemagick11:11
frabbityeah its pretty small and fast11:11
frabbitbuZz: i dounno how11:12
frabbiti use im normally for convertiong and stuff11:12
frabbitbut how to make graphically a selection in an image11:12
buZzapt install pinta works fine on my devuan11:12
frabbitbuZz: yeah ive installed it too11:13
frabbitbuZz: have already beowulf?11:13
buZzyeah for many months11:13
frabbitok ive ascci here11:13
frabbitbut will change soon11:13
buZzthis tutorial tells you how to crop with imagemagick :
buZzits a WAY lighter program than pinta11:14
frabbiti know but that is command line11:14
buZzits not11:14
buZzyou arent reading11:14
frabbitnah im just blocking images here... wait11:15
buZzdisplay bla.jpg , transform > crop > select your area > crop11:15
buZzfile > save11:15
buZz'display' is the command to open the gui frontend of imagemagick11:16
frabbito_0 !!!11:17
frabbitthere.. is... some gui when i click...11:17
buZzwelcome to linux11:17
frabbiti didnt know that exists...11:17
buZzread documentation, you'd know more :D11:17
frabbiti alwys used imagemagick on cli11:17
frabbitconvert etc..11:17
frabbitfor years now xD11:17
frabbiti cant read all documentation for all programs i use...11:18
frabbitim always looking for the things i need right now11:18
frabbitgood bye pinta11:18
buZzlast minute choices are rarely well informed11:18
frabbitbuZz: last minute? i can always find what i need11:19
frabbiti dont need to know the whole program11:20
frabbitits cool if someone does, even read (and understand) the sourcecode but who got that much time?11:20
frabbitbuZz: well thank u very much for the hint, i really missed that semi-gui-thing in imagemagick ;)11:22
buZz\o welcome11:22
buZzi own all the time in the world, just like everyone else :)11:23
buZzthe limitation to our time available is only in our minds11:23
frabbitman... all this wasted time everytime i opened up gimp to crop some image... D.=11:23
frabbitbuZz: nah... thats philosophy not allday life...11:23
frabbitcomputer stuff eats my lifetime way to much...11:24
frabbitthat im gui was created by some left-hander as it seems =D11:26
frabbitfunny how different it feels when the mouse arrow points to a different direction then it commonly does xD11:27
frabbitand now i forgot what image it was that i wanted to crop xD11:29
frabbittuxd3v: - why?13:49
tuxd3vfrabbit, why what?13:51
tuxd3vho you mean using sudo on front?13:52
frabbitwhy is sudo safer instead of using a root account?13:53
tuxd3vits a long story, but I will try the short one..13:53
tuxd3vYou should never use the root password, unless strictly necessary13:54
frabbiti mean you can get a root shell with sudo too, but you need only one passphrase, the user passphrase13:54
frabbitsudo -i or what was it?13:54
tuxd3vsudo su -13:54
tuxd3vor sudo su - root13:54
tuxd3vits the same thing13:54
frabbiti think its safer to seperate them from each other, cause a root passphrase is not as fast leaked as a userpassphrase13:55
tuxd3vIn my company, that deals with Monetary system..there are a big focus on security, you are not alowed, *ever*, to login with the root account13:55
tuxd3vpasswords will be left in Ram memory, password can be left by mistake in the history, and so on..13:56
frabbitbut that doesnt make sense when u can login as root with sudo and the userpassphrase13:56
tuxd3vsudoers facility exist for a purpose13:56
tuxd3vso, login with 'sudo su -'13:57
frabbityou can make a mistake while open a te for running some sudo command but whoops your mouse focus is still on that website there while you type in your passphrase for sudo...13:57
tuxd3vyou are using your own account13:57
tuxd3vyes it could hapen with your pasword too13:58
frabbiti use root no where else then on an own tty that i never use for anything else13:58
tuxd3vbut its your password13:58
tuxd3veven tought it has access to root13:58
frabbiton a tty without any multiplexers, webbrowsers or whatever running13:58
frabbitso if i type in my root passphrase there cant happend any accident13:58
frabbiti dont run ayn gui as root too and te are gui programs too13:59
tuxd3vin our servers any time, a person logs in with root, the security team raises the alarm, and you will get to answear very well to the director, on why, you have used inadvertedly a user password that is root, and its not your own13:59
frabbitlike xterm, stterm xfceterminal or whatever13:59
tuxd3vbasically, probably you will get fired13:59
frabbittuxd3v: ok, but why? i really dont understand...14:00
frabbitwith sudo su its like you were log in  as root14:00
tuxd3vbut you are entering with your user14:01
tuxd3vthe password you type its your own14:01
frabbityes and thats the problem14:01
frabbitsame passphrase14:01
tuxd3vweareas if you login as root, you need to type the root account password, that its not yours, and you can't use it14:01
tuxd3vsudo su - != su -14:02
frabbiti have a root account here, i type in root and then the passphrase for the root-account14:02
frabbiti have no sudo14:02
tuxd3vI can't do that14:02
tuxd3vnot only I the other people also can't14:03
frabbityeah u can choose at install to create a root account or not14:03
frabbityes but it doesnt matter they can get a rootshell with sudo...14:03
tuxd3vroot passwords are destinated to be keept, so that someday will be needed, but in that situation you need to call the security team, and their director needs to call yours, and everything is scrutinized14:04
frabbitso its the same but one more program on the pc and user acces and root acces with the same passphrase...14:04
frabbitthats an security issue imho...14:04
tuxd3vits not the same password14:04
tuxd3vsudo su -14:04
tuxd3vI login with tuxd3v password14:05
tuxd3vsu -14:05
frabbiti remmeber that iva to typed in my userpassphrase on ubuntu when i ran sudo years ago14:05
tuxd3vI login with root password14:05
tuxd3vthey are very diferent passwords14:05
frabbitok but su is NOT sudo14:05
frabbitsu is switch user14:05
tuxd3vsu doesn't mean that you will login as root14:05
frabbityeah but u talked about sudo is safer14:05
frabbitthats what i asked14:06
tuxd3vI can login into sam account like this:14:06
tuxd3v'su - sam'14:06
frabbitor any other account14:06
tuxd3vI will need sam password for that14:06
frabbiti know14:06
tuxd3vbut for root, always, and after some time you got "programmed" for it14:07
tuxd3vyou just don't even think in it14:07
frabbitwhat does that mean?14:07
tuxd3vyou just do14:07
tuxd3vsudo su -14:07
frabbiti cant follow... sorry14:07
XenguyYou are talking about an enterprise context.  I don't know about others, but I am a non-enterprise user in this context.  I prefer using root as it's intended, and I never saw any talk of using sudo like that until bloody Ubuntu showed up14:08
tuxd3vbecause you need to login based on the credentials previledges that you have on the servers, and that is provided by the sudoers facility14:08
frabbitXenguy: yeah ubuntu makes it default to use sudo14:08
tuxd3vI don't know about ubuntu14:08
onefangGuess what I'm about to suggest you do with this conversation?  B-)14:08
XenguyI don't know why any single user at home would bother with this sudo nonsense, except those infected by the Ubuntu meme14:09
frabbitonefang: =D14:09
tuxd3vMajority of the machines are unfortunatly RedHat or Aix14:09
onefangGood guess frabbit.14:09
nemoXenguy: sudo lets you remember just one password ☺14:29
nemoor often zero since the window of memory is configurable14:29
nemowithout accidentally leaving a shell in root14:29
nemothat said, I leave a shell in root allll the time14:29
nemoand haven't destroyed anything yet *crosses fingers*14:30
tuxd3vnemo, you got busted :)14:30
nemomy coworker did ☺14:30
nemoone little casual rm -rf plus confusion of being in his home work area versus the dev webserver root14:31
ShorTiei play 99.9% of the time as root .. :/~14:31
nemofortunately was just dev14:31
nemorm -rf project14:31
nemohe stopped doing that in production though ☺14:31
frabbitShorTie: o_014:32
frabbitbut come to #debianfork14:32
frabbitfor that topic14:32
ejri am trying to get my microphone to work with pulseaudio on devuan 3.015:06
ejron one system with mate installed, it works. the other one uses dwm without all the mate dependencies (including pulseaudio i guess), so i manually installed the pulse packages that are also on the mate machine, where the mic works15:07
ejrstill i cannot get the mic to work15:07
frabbitejr: is it muted?15:10
ejrfrabbit: it does not even show up in pavucontrol15:10
frabbitmaybe in alsamixer (if there too) or in pavucontrol15:10
ejrand in alsamixer, when i had it installed, i unmuted it (then deinstalled it to make sur eit doesnt interfere with pa)15:11
ejrno, headset15:11
frabbithm these works at my computer neither but usb microphone (the one in the webcam too) works fine15:11
frabbitbut i removed the internal mic from my mainboard maybe thats the reason xD15:12
ejrand i am running libreboot, maybe thats the reason why it doesnt work here :)15:12
frabbitcan u try a usb mic too?15:12
frabbiti have libreboot too15:12
frabbitwhat computer do u have?15:12
frabbit=) i have a t60 hear nearly the same computer15:13
frabbitu can ask swiftgeek at #libreboot, im curious too15:13
ejrunfortunately no usb mic available,no... but i will put the ssd into my other non-libreboot x60 and see if it works there15:13
ejrwill do if it doesnt work on the other machine, brb15:14
frabbityeah thats a god first check15:14
ejrso, frabbit, it does in fact work on the non-librebooted machine. so i guess i also dont have a mic :)15:40
ejr(i bought the machine with libreboot installed already)15:40
frabbitok interessting, then taht is something for #libreboot15:41
frabbityou bought it? phew expensive =D15:41
ejryou've got a t60 so that may not be the case with you: do you also sometimes have overheating issues when your machine is on the ultrabase/docking station/port replicator?15:41
ejr(whatever it is for t60)15:41
frabbitt60 and x60 are nearly the same machine15:41
frabbitoverheating cpu?15:42
ejrnot during normal operation, but when the cpu is in high usage for a while15:42
frabbitmaybe the thermal medium is bad (dry paste)?15:42
ejri have thinkfan and fancontrol installed15:42
frabbiti have graphite pads here and they work like a charm =)15:43
ejrno, it's related to the ultrabase, because it does not happen when it's not docked in the ultrabase (also, i replaced the paste 2 years ago)15:43
frabbiti have a dock here too15:43
frabbit2 years? o_015:43
frabbiter.. thats a long time imho...15:43
ejris it?15:43
ejri dunno :D15:43
ejrit was my first time15:43
frabbituse this instead of thermal paste (they are a waste of money and time)15:44
frabbiti have the best cpu u can get into the t60 and never have over 57 degree celsius15:44
frabbitbut dont touch any other parts of your hardware with graphite stuff, it can break15:45
ejrinteresting, never heard of graphite as an alternative to paste before15:45
frabbitu can use this pads nealry forever (no end of life)15:45
frabbittheres one exception: hardcore gaming rigs, for that i would use indium pastes ("liquid" metal) but they are not very common ;)15:46
ejrthanks for the hint15:46
frabbitejr: yw =)15:46
ejrtbh though, when/if my librebooted x60 ever dies, i am just going to use one of my 3 non-librebooted x60s/x61s :D15:47
frabbitejr: but you really should renew the thermalpaste (or use the pads) because even if ur machine doesnt shutdown because of overheating it will be damaged15:48
ejryou're right... do you glue the graphite pad to the cpu, or how is it fixed on there?15:50
frabbithell no!15:51
frabbitjust place it there15:51
frabbiti know many people dont like linus tech tips but with that video i was getting aware of these pads:
ejrkudos for also using :)15:52
frabbitejr: u can just follow the introduction on the IC website i linked to u earlier15:52
frabbitejr: yay! ;)15:52
ejrso, i read the instruction and watched the vid,but still wonder why the pad wouldnt possibly just float around and touch other components on the mainboard.15:56
frabbitejr: after you placed the pad i suggests you to run a cpu stress-test. i use cpuburn for this:
frabbitcheck the temperature of the cpu while cpuburn is runnign it normally the first sensor in /proc/acpi/ibm/thermal16:02
frabbitejr: its pressed down by the heatsink16:02
frabbitheatsink -> graphite <- cpu die16:03
ejralright, i'll check where i can get the thermal pad in my country16:03
frabbiti paid 10€ over a year ago, but they increases the price as its often sold out =(16:04
frabbit10€ for a 30x30mm16:05
ejrah right, ebay austria doesnt have any, but ebay germany does :)16:05
frabbitu can cut it with a scissor16:05
frabbitejr: =)16:05
ejrnice :) thanks16:06
frabbityw ;)16:06
* frabbit made another strike against the cooling paste lobby!1!16:06
frabbitkjjjnob: Hello!17:35
kjjjnobHi frabbit. I have some questions, maybe someone you can help me17:38
frabbitkjjjnob: if u dont ask u will not know ;P17:40
WafficusHi there, question regarding sound with mpv. My sound isn't working. I installed Devuan Beowulf with min install last night on this comp18:43
Wafficusis it because I need to install pulseaudio or alsa?18:43
Wafficusnot sure what sound mixer is installed by default on the min installer18:43
phoggalsa is always installed18:46
frabbitWafficus: do u have a thinkpad?18:47
frabbitWafficus: first install alsa-utils and check if master or any other important channel is muted18:48
frabbitif u have a thinkpad u can also check /proc/acpi/ibm/volume18:48
frabbitfor me its muted there by default with every boot and i need to unmute it with multimedia hardwarekeys on keyboard18:49
frabbitoh with alsa-utils comes alsamixer, its a ncurses euqalizer18:50
tuxd3vaplay -L18:53
tuxd3vspeaker-test -c2 -twav18:54
tuxd3vfor 2 chanels18:54
frabbittuxd3v: hey thats cool =>18:56
some_alexfrabbit: why not add some command to your .profile to unmute it?19:05
frabbitsome_alex: /root/.profile or /home/USER/.profile ? and what to add there?19:07
some_alexfrabbit: there are command line tools for changing volume in alsa / pulseaudio. Since you should never run X as root, I'm talking about your /home/USER/.profile. Things you put there should run every time you log in.19:10
some_alexfrabbit: note: if you're running bash, remember that bash recognizes 3 different names for this file (in specific order) and chooses the one found first.19:11
some_alexfrabbit: see this page for examples of commands you can run to change or (un)mute volume:
WafficusI have a Thinkpad T440S19:13
kjjjnobfrabbit: Ofc xD Im reading about no systemd projects and I have some interest in Devuan. I used Gentoo the last time to play with OpenRC but had some problems with package support to build AOSP.19:13
kjjjnobA distro based in Debian is more flexible with Android building support.19:13
kjjjnobTo use a rolling release style os I need move to unstable and here is ceres branch?19:13
some_alexthe relevant part on that wiki page is the first argument to the spawn function19:14
Wafficuskjjjnob: if you're cool with Debian min installer, its the same experience19:14
Wafficusso far its been good to me imo19:14
Wafficuslike nothing ever changed19:15
Wafficussince I've been using straight Debian for the last 6 months after 2 years of Lubuntu19:15
Wafficusyeah I'm on alsamixer, and the master is at 100%19:15
Wafficusyet no sound on mpv19:16
Wafficusmaybe it just needs pulseaudio instead19:16
some_alexfrabbit: also you might have multiple sound cards in which case you'll need to specify them in the commands as well (count starts from 0)19:16
iv4nshm4k0vI may be missing some context here, but ~/.bash_profile (or ~/.profile) is read by Bash when it's started as a login shell, as in: tty logins, ssh logins, xterm -ls "logins", etc.19:17
Wafficusfrabbit: do I have to change the "mute" property to: "off" in /proc/acpi/ibm/volume file?19:17
iv4nshm4k0vFor X logins, it's customary to run ~/.xsession instead.19:17
WafficusI remember commenting out those sections in my AwesomeWM config though19:19
Wafficusfor the audio controls19:19
Wafficusas they never worked19:19
iv4nshm4k0v(FWIW, I have a '. "$HOME"/.session_common' command in both my ~/.bash_profile and ~/.xsession, so I can maintain a single file with the list of things to do on login, whether X or non-X.)19:20
Wafficuswould pavucontrol work in my scenario as well?19:20
Wafficusor is pavucontrol for pulseaudio?19:21
kjjjnobWafficus: If I don't remember bad, is choose unstable in net install. Here is the same?19:21
Wafficuskjjjnob: what?19:21
some_alexiv4nshm4k0v: thanks! I always log in with startx in tty so I don't experience this issue. IMO not having a login shell while using a DM is a broken behavior.19:21
Wafficusyeah nevermind, Pavucontrol is for Pulseaudio19:21
some_alexiv4nshm4k0v: nice idea with the common profile, also helps when you use multiple shells (I personally have bash + zsh + fish)19:23
frabbitWafficus: mpv does not depend on pulse19:25
Wafficusit would be ok if I set the /proc/acpi/ibm/volume file to mute: off right?19:26
frabbityes should be19:26
Wafficusyep its off19:26
Wafficusfor the 'mute' option19:26
frabbitbut as i treid that i couldnt save the file19:27
frabbiteven as root it says that it isnt writable19:27
Wafficusstill kind of wondering why mpv isn't working in that case if the audio is 100% in alsamixer with no mute19:27
frabbitWafficus: and level is?19:27
some_alexkjjjnob: regarding lack of packages for specific tasks: you can use containers to have full access to programs another distro provides without having to install the actual distro19:27
frabbitWafficus: at /proc/acpi/ibm/volume i mean what level is it?19:28
frabbiti have 4 here atm19:28
frabbitunmuting only doesnt mean that theres sound ;)19:28
kjjjnobWafficus: In the Debian graphical installation (netinstall) you can choose the unstable repository. Can you do the same here?19:29
frabbitsome_alex: ill check this out later19:29
kjjjnobsome_alex: I had thought so. But I prefer to have the distribution to choose with the support for the necessary packages19:30
frabbitWafficus: did u run the command tuxd3v has posted?19:30
frabbitsome_alex: how does that Media Controls thing help with muted audio on boot?19:31
frabbit"It is possible to control both volume and media playback"19:32
Wafficuslevel is 100% on main channel19:32
frabbitsounds like this is just for merging channels on one button19:32
Wafficusfor /proc/acpi/ibm/volume19:32
some_alexkjjjnob: btw if you feel some package is missing you can spend some of your time maintaining this package for the distribution you chose :)19:32
Wafficusafter I open it in vim, it just has19:32
Wafficuslevel: unsupported19:32
Wafficusmute: off19:32
Wafficusthat's it19:32
frabbitthats irregular -> level: unsupported19:33
frabbitthere must be a number19:33
frabbitbut here im of sorry <=)19:33
* frabbit makes way 4 the geeks19:34
some_alexfrabbit: ummm, you can copy-paste the command for toggling mute(-ness?) and put in any file in your home directory that runs on boot.19:34
frabbitsome_alex: does it affect /proc/acpi/ibm/volume ?19:35
some_alexruns on login*19:35
some_alexfrabbit: try it on the command line, I have no idea19:35
frabbitsome_alex: so that code is changing things i can change with alsamixer?19:36
kjjjnobsome_alex: Ofc. But I don't have time to spend in maintain :D19:36
some_alexfrabbit: if you have some weird hardware that doesn't listen to those commands, you can sometimes just `echo $my_value > /proc/acpi/ibm/volume`19:36
some_alexnot sure if it would work with this device19:36
some_alexsome are read-only, others are writable19:37
frabbitsome_alex: no it doesnt thats my point =)19:37
some_alexfrabbit: can you or can you not unmute the sound in alsamixer?19:37
frabbitand "sset Master 5%- ..." is just a command for changing alsa volume, but thats fine19:37
frabbitsome_alex: i can19:37
some_alexfrabbit: below that there's the one for unmuting19:38
frabbitbut the muted sound after each reboot isnt caused by a muted alsa19:38
Wafficusfrabbit: so you're having the same sound card issues with alsa too?19:39
frabbitalsa isnt muted but sound is still muted, till i unmuting it with the hardware keys on thinkpad19:39
some_alexfrabbit: if you can unmute it in alsamixer why wouldn't you be able to unmute it automatically in the terminal???19:39
frabbitWafficus: no19:39
frabbitWafficus: i have sound here i just need to unmuting it everytime i boot19:39
frabbitor after boot19:39
Wafficusah I see19:39
Wafficuslucky ha19:39
frabbitand thats only with hardware keys on keyboard19:39
some_alexfrabbit: hmm, I see what you mean now19:40
frabbitsome_alex: =)19:40
some_alexfrabbit: see if you can simulate a key press19:40
some_alexif it's *that* far into the hardware, maybe look into BIOS settings?19:40
frabbitsome_alex: have librboot here19:40
frabbitand this issue exists only since ive librebooted this computer about a year ago19:41
some_alexfrabbit: nice, gonna flash it to my X200 as well :)19:41
frabbitsome_alex: cool! good luck! =)19:41
Wafficusnice, I want to do libreboot but I suck at soldering19:41
some_alexluck is what I'd need LOL19:41
Wafficusplus I can't find a decent price on an X200 or X60 on eBay yet19:41
Wafficusresellers know what they have unfortunately19:41
frabbitWafficus: u can flash by software on some models19:41
frabbitvery easy19:41
Wafficusfrabbit: right but the wifi chip would have to be replaced manually too though on some distros19:42
Wafficusespecially if you do parabola since it'll consider the wifi card as proprietary19:42
frabbitWafficus: some_alex will have to do it the hardware way with a BBB or a pie19:42
WafficusI see19:42
Wafficusyeah I've seen the RPI route19:42
Wafficusagain, I'll need some space aka a workbench, a bag for all the screws19:42
some_alexWafficus: here I got X200 without a drive for $8019:42
frabbitWafficus: the wifi card isnt soldered to the board u can just pull it out =D19:43
Wafficusfrabbit: yeah I saw you can just pull out the little pin socket connected to it19:43
frabbitsome_alex: woah! =O19:43
Wafficussome_alex: nice, in the USA?19:43
frabbitWafficus: Install Libreboot on X60/T60 ThinkPads (muh freedumbs edition) -
some_alexWafficus: Eastern EU ;)19:44
frabbithe also replace the wlan card19:44
frabbitWafficus: but dont do it exactly like he does in the video read the docs first!19:44
frabbithe skips memory checking for example what is highly recommended19:45
frabbit*ram checking19:45
Wafficuswell I wonder if I just need to reboot to get the sound working19:46
Wafficusor rather, I wonder what's with that unsupported value19:46
frabbitWafficus: yeah last thing is probably the issue but i cant help u with that sorry =(19:47
frabbitmay search for it19:47
Wafficuswill do19:48
frabbitWafficus: iv found something in german19:50
Wafficusalsa-base might be related according to some Ubuntu post I found19:50
Wafficusbut then again that's Ubuntu, not necessarily Devuan19:50
some_alexfrabbit: regarding flashing the libreboot on X200: I can go the raspberry route or I can buy a special chip for flashing BIOS for around $419:51
frabbiton german thinkpad forum someone wrote that this unsupported value thing means that u cannot control the volume with that19:51
frabbitsome_alex: a chip?19:51
frabbitor a clip?19:51
frabbitpoama..muwuwa somnething xD19:52
Wafficusfrabbit: so that means that I couldn't possibly use alsa anyway right?19:53
some_alexfrabbit: I mean the CH341a. It would connect to the computer via USB and to the BIOS chip on the motherboard via a clip19:53
frabbitWafficus: im not a geek but i think it just means that u cant control volume via that acpi module19:54
some_alexby computer I mean a separate computer used for flashing of course19:54
frabbitsome_alex:  oh isee. i saw that in some video in the past i think =)19:55
some_alexfrabbit: you know German?19:55
frabbitsome_alex: yes19:55
some_alexnice. Actually the X200 I got has German keyboard :)19:55
frabbitsome_alex: what now? ick bin ein berliner? xD19:55
Wafficusthere's some pretty damn good tech jobs in Berlin, good skill to have btw19:56
Wafficusa bit envious19:56
Wafficusif I had a choice honestly and I could move anyway, I'd move to Hungary and work in Germany or something like that19:56
some_alexfrabbit: maybe Wolfgang's video?19:56
Wafficushowever, I'd rather settle for a homestead in FL for the time being19:56
frabbitsome_alex:  for the x200? yeah i saw that he did one but i didnt watched it19:57
frabbitbut we are getting ot ;)19:57
some_alexwell he did multiple videos on it and in the most recent one he used the CH341a19:57
some_alexyes very damn quickly :)19:58
frabbitsome_alex: ok i didnt watched it because i have no x200 xD19:58
some_alexactually we got OT long ago LOL19:58
frabbitermm.. sound something...19:58
Wafficushow much is just a compatible 1 tb HDD for an X200 or X60 anyway?20:00
Wafficusnever looked into laptop drives20:00
Wafficusbut I like your idea to get one without a drive20:00
Wafficusthat might not be a bad idea20:00
Wafficusit would be better anyway, cause god knows what the dude might have had on the drive anyway20:01
frabbitWafficus: -> #debianfork20:01
WafficusThe X60 libreboot looked easier, I saw Luke Smith's old video on it20:01
Wafficusfrabbit: what's debianfork?20:01
Wafficusis that the off-topic channel?20:01
frabbitWafficus: the off-topic channel for devuan users20:01
Wafficusah gotcha, sorry20:01
frabbitnp i was the same xD20:02
Wafficusby the way, this post helped with my sound issues with Devuan:
WafficusI had to add the "default.conf" file in my case to enable sound for my PCH sound device20:40
Wafficusfor the internal speaker on the Thinkpad T440S20:40
frabbitWafficus:  oh cool congrats! =>20:41
Wafficusfrabbit: thanks :)20:42
Wafficusyou were right in that, just do an internet search on the error ha20:42
WafficusQuestion regarding IceCat and Waterfox on Devuan: if I download either one, I have to manually update them each time right?21:26
WafficusI ask because they're not available on 'apt'21:26
fsmithredthey might have an auto-update feature21:27
fsmithredshould work if you just unpack them somewhere in your home directory21:28
fsmithredowned and run by unpriv user21:28
Wafficusaka unpack it in /usr/bin?21:33
frabbitWafficus: have a look at surf2 too =)21:35
fsmithredshould not unpack stuff manually into /usr/bin. That's for packages to put stuff. You can put it in /opt or in /usr/local/bin, but you'll need to be root to do that or to update them.21:37
fsmithredunpack in home means unpack somewhere under your user's home directory21:37
fsmithredI'm assuming it comes in a tarball like firefox does from mozilla21:38
fsmithredunpack it and run it21:38
Wafficusyeah its in a .tar21:43
Wafficusso I just did tar -xvf on Icecat for example21:43
Wafficusbut am not sure where to place it to be honest21:43
WafficusI'm used to installing things by source with make where they'll place it in the appropriate spots21:44
WafficusI guess just dump it into ~/utilities folder in its separate folder right?21:44
Wafficusi'll try running it manually21:45
specingI'm quiet dissapointed in apparmor already22:23
specingfirst, had to reboot (and modify grub command line) to enable it22:23
specingsecond, now I need to reboot a second time after manually setting every single thing to enforce(!), because apparently confinement cannot be changed after exec22:24
specingand the debian apparmor wikipage says, I quote "Beware though: many profiles are not up-to-date and will break functionality in enforce mode,"22:25
specingIt's almost like apparmor was merely a checkbox on the distro "we have this" list22:25
sixwheeledbeastWell to work it makes sense for it to be loaded at boot.22:30
sixwheeledbeastare you sure that's not just a systemd caveat? I know systemd created issues with apparmor if loading profiles without rebooting.22:32
specing" the parser silently ignores rules that are not supported by the running kernel. " omg22:37
Wafficuswhen I try to run Icecat on Devuan, I'm getting htis error
Wafficuswhoops wrong links22:40
Wafficussam@samdevuan ~/utilities/icecat $ ./icecat22:41
WafficusXPCOMGlueLoad error for file /home/sam/utilities/icecat/ cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory22:41
WafficusCouldn't load XPCOM.22:41
Wafficusdo I have to download libdbus-glib in that case?22:41
Wafficuslooks like libdbus is related to systemd22:42
Wafficusshould I just use st surf instead?22:52
WafficusI ask because I received the same XPCOM error for Waterfox and IceCat22:52
frabbitWafficus: surf2 is cool =)22:54
frabbitim pretty sure that i will purge firefox soon and only use surf2 and lynx22:54
frabbitsurf2 with patches of course22:57
Wafficussurf2 is like qutebrowser right?23:03
Wafficusbut without tabs rihgt?23:03
frabbiti dunno23:09
frabbitmust hava a look23:09
frabbitbut yes no tab in surf23:09
frabbityug qute is written in js...23:11
frabbitsurf is written in C23:11
Acaciayou can use a program called tabbed to do tabs with surf, it's suggested somewhere, I don't have it installed right now23:15
Acaciaeither the man page or the FAQ on its website23:16
kjjjnobDevuan support Gnome 3.3x without systemd?23:18
fsmithredgnome 1:3.30+1 in beowulf23:20
kjjjnobceres support the lastest version?23:21
frabbitAcacia: a patch probably23:26
fsmithredgnome 1:3.30+2 in chimaera/ceres23:28
fsmithrednote that 'devuan' does not appear in the version. That means we're using the un-changed debian package.23:30
fsmithredso, ceres=sid, chimaera=bullseye23:31 to check packages/versions23:31
frabbitejr is sure that corona is a fake or something similiar.23:37
frabbitwhoops... off-topic23:37
Guest60258Wafficus: which version of icecat?23:44
Wafficuslatest version23:45
WafficusVersion 60.7.023:45
Wafficusfrom their download mirror23:45
WafficusI'm trying this because as much as I like Qutebrowser23:46
Wafficusit just refuses to work for's website for some reason23:46
Wafficuslike it won't get past the sign in page23:46
Guest60258i've built IceCat GNUzilla-68.9.0 for beowulf amd6423:46
Wafficuswait, there's a version past 60.7.0?23:46
Wafficuson their site, it only have 60.7.0 listed in the folder directory as the latest one23:47
Guest60258yes, somebody updated the script by Rubén Rodriguez23:47
Wafficussorry wrong link23:49
Guest60258Mark H Weaber, concretly23:49
Guest60258I tested my tarball for a few minuts and worked fine23:50
Guest60258put it at /opt and run the icecat-bin binary23:50
WafficusI see23:51
Wafficusjust download gnuzilla-68.tar.gz and do tar -xvf (tarball file)23:52
Wafficusand then place it in /opt like you mentioned and run it?23:52
Guest60258i want to build the .deb packages including the internationalization23:52
WafficusI don't have a /opt directory though?23:52
ejrwhat was the file again and where can it be found, which helps to reduce the shutdown time on luks-encrypted devuan installations?23:53
ejrwhen i shutdown my machine, it always hangs at "sda5_crypt... " for a while and shows an error, then turns off23:53
ejrand i once read somewhere that some file in i think grub needs to be replaced23:53
absintheheh, if you find the answer i might find it useful too :>23:54
ejri think there is some file on github or gitlab or so, absinthe, but couldnt find it yet....i'll keep searching and let you know if i find it tonight23:55
absinthecool. i'm doing some research on my side as well :>23:56
absinthe(will let you know as well if i find something)23:56
WafficusI placed it into ~/utilities/gnuzilla-68 directory23:58
Wafficusso basically, I did ./makeicecat in that same directory23:59
Wafficushowever, its complaining it needs 'hg'23:59
Wafficusthat's mercurial right?23:59
Wafficus./makeicecat: line 64: hg: command not found23:59
Guest60258ok, but you can create the /opt file23:59
Guest60258hg is mercurial23:59

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